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Subject: Unity of Elohim Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 00:52:52 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, Andy.McGuire@psc.bellhowell.com CC: MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org Howdy! This is from another list. I wanted to show it to you folks. Peace, Ken Shaw ------- Shalom Nancy, >>What do you mean by religious and what do you mean institution? --- I mean the Church I was raised in. I came from a Mormon background and so the whole "born-again" thing was pretty foriegn to them. I was taught the principle of faith in Christ unto salvation by the Campus Crusade For Christ folks when I went of to college. I felt a sense of loyalty to my pioneer ancestors and wanted to bring the reality of the power of Christ to my own people. But I was just to young and facing the bulk of the whole Church and 150 years of tradition. Then I tried some other traditional Chistian denomiations, but found that what they understood to be "rebirth" was actually just of form of emotional exitement leading to a sense of psychological relief, and that there was no real change that happened at all. I noticed that the people kept trying to repeat the original cycle of exitement/relief because they were still hoping that a real transformation would occur, but instead it just ended up creating psychological problems. ------------------------------------------------- >>I do not know what non-dualism means......sorry. --- To say it simply it means that there is only one thing that exists...period. It's the logical conclusion of Monotheism. To say that God exists, and that we somehow exist independantly from Him, is to say that the are two existants. Non-dualism is the metaphysical position that God is the only "Being" that exists AT ALL. That means that we humans don't have a "permanent" existance seperate and independant from God, and that our "individual being" is continously created moment-by-moment by God Himself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>What do you mean "everything changed"......the choices Jesus was making in >>you life? >>The belief that bad things happening were for your good? That He would >>make things right in the end. ? --- This is where things get hard to talk about. I mean that the way I was experiencing my life changed. The world opened up before my eyes and I saw everything iluminated from within by the Presence of God. I was filled with a love so high and so pure that it is just unspeakable. Everything my eyes fell upon became a revelation of the One God, everything I tasted...a sip of water or a bit of bread...was an exalting orchestra of flavor and refreshment. Every breath of air was delicious and refreshing. I feeled the Spirit of God in my body like liquid fire circulating through my limbs burning and purging out the years of sin and fear. But most of all I was aware of the Mind of Jesus mingling and mixing with my mind, a kind instantanious "telepathic" connection such that I was in a state of constant conversation with Him, and prayer was simply turning my inward attention to His Presence inside myself. This Presence would show me how my mind was driven my habits of fear and selfishness, and give me power to let go and change and really love. I started to see other people as frightened confused children who needed a smile and a kind word rather than my fear or resentment. It was like I hadn't even been alive at all before, and now I was alive for the first time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>I started >>>being able to tell what was in peoples hearts and what there motives were. >>>I started having the un-nerving experience of know when the phone was going >>>to ring and who it would be. >>Do you attribute this phenomena to being "born again"? ---- None of this stuff was happening before my "rebirth". It was part of feeling the "breath" of God blowing through everything. Everything became "transparent" in some way. I could somehow see "through" things. >From time to time I could actually "see" what people were thinking. It was wierd. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Can you explain what people in a church did to you? Can you explain what >>you mean by being in a tribe.? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Church is a social organism, and the organizing principle of that organism is their shared sense of what reality is. If some one starts have a very different experince of reality from the group, there is an instinctive "bearing down" on the person by the group. The message is "don't be wierd" and "conform or get out". It's a kind of "immune reaction" of the group to mantain it's organic integrity. This "bearing down" is both conscious and unconsious, and the most effective technique is "shunning". Young people have very delicate partialy formed ego structures, and they desperatly need indentification with a group in order to survive. Shunning is just too much for a young person to take. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Will you tell me how you lost your "state of grace"? -- I ended up becoming a "Missionary" for the Mormon Church as most young males do as part of their passage into adulthood. I went out with a heart full of to preach faith in Christ unto salvation, but found myself in a situation where I was forced to try to "sell" the Church to people. I went against the truth that was in me and adopted the truth of my "tribe". I sinned against Light and feared men more than God. The Presence left me like an injured Friend...and it has taken many years of tears to find my way back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>But I did start reading the Old Testment and fell in love with it. >>>I was so hungry to learn more about the *Being* that I could feel >>>as burning sensation of pure joy in my body and as "Higher Mind" >>>mixing with my mind tthat I studied every word spoken by Yahuweh >>>to Moses with deep concentration. I was very impressed by the hints >>>laid out when He said "I am that I am". Perhaps Yahuweh shouldn't be >>>looked at as an "entity" from an unknown dimension come down to torment >>>the trembling humans for some unscrutible reason. >What made you believe this? >>>Maybe Yahuweh is none >>>other than EXISTANCE ITSELF....CONSCIOUSNESS ITSELF...REALITY ITSELF. --- This is where things get difficult again. The simple answer is that this is what the Presence taught me while "in the Spirit". But there is a scriptural arguement that can be made, which is the project I'm gearing up for now. The root of "Yahuweh" is "existance" or "being". The Tanach describes a number of "Divine Beings" who seem to operate as a "single" being. This is suggested by the word "Elohim", which is technicaly a plural word meaning "Gods" but is used in sentences as if it was a singular. The "Shema", the declaration of faith that all followers of Yahuweh are obligated to recite twice a day..."Shema Ysrael Adoni Elohenu Adoni Echad" Is literaly translated as "Hear O Israel Yahuweh your Gods Yahuweh is unified." The Tanach is full of stories where prophets and angels spoke as if they where Yahuweh in person, and Moses "stood as G-d to the people." All this suggests to me that Yahuweh is the "Being" from which "individual beings" arise, and that prophets and angels are simply reunited to the Source of their "being". like a branch being grafted back into a tree. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Jesus was AWAKE, >What do you mean by awake? --- Since Yahuweh is the only "Being" that exists AT ALL, them our current experience of having an independant "seperate" existance is a delusion. This is the real meaning of "the fall" of Adam. Adam did not "know he was naked" because he had no sense of "individual" existance. The first act of "individual" intention caused a catastrophic split between the "part" and it's "Whole". Adam fell into "self-awareness". This "splitting" created a paradoxical situation that is diffucult to put language to, except to say Adam was then filled with fear and pain, which we fall heir to. The prophets and angels are "branches" restored to the to the "Tree" so that the Life and Mind of the "Tree" fills them and they speak and act as if they were "Tree". But I believe that Jesus was somehow the very "Tree" Itself. Thats about all I can say about the matter I hope this helps some. Peace, Kenneth Shaw Subject: Re: GBH a.k.a. Mr Savvy Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 15:31:35 -0500 From: Randall Shortridge Organization: State University of New York To: "McGuire, Andy" CC: Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Theurgus@aol.com, jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org References: 1 I agree that GBH is a very PR savvy individual, but to me this is all fluff. Remember that Enoch was slow of speech and referred to as a wild man. I guess I would rather see less fluff and more substance. Where could I get some difficult questions answered in a candid and honest fashion without getting beat about the ears with "you don't need to know that" (ie. remain ignorant) and "follow the prophet" (ie. don't bother us with things like this again). Maybe I am speaking blasphemy, but I am not too favorably impressed with HInckley. When I was on my mission, he visited us and spoke to us missionaries. He definately enjoyed being the center of attention and I could see pride all over him like stink on manure. Randall. "McGuire, Andy" wrote: > Mike, > > You wrote.... > > ****************** > It is difficult for me to consider GBH a "corporate neophobe" these > days, though. Maybe once upon a time. He recently visited Boston. He > is at home in the modern world, media-savvy, and techno-literate. I > think that is quite remarkable for a man his age. He is simultaneously > brilliant and disarming, spiritual and pragmatic. Furthermore, he has > the face of a homely angel. I'm caught in his spell. Kiss the frog! =} > ****************** > > All of the good things you say about GBH above could be explained by one > thing: A professional 'handler' who is paid to make sure the world sees him > this way. I am reminded of the way Adolf Hitler used to film himself > delivering a speech then use it as a tool to refine his delivery. OK. Now > that I have pissed of the Mutant List by drawing a parallel between Grandpa > Gordon and Uncle Dolf, let me back down a bit. > > Hinkley probably is all of the things you say, and in the genuine measure, > not as a result of professional handling. But one thing remains: > > THE CHURCH IS A CONSERVATIVE CORPORATE ENTITY. Period. End of discussion. > Yes, they move swiftly to embrace technology and technique. But when it > comes to PEOPLE and MORALS and THEOLOGY, they are lagging just one or two > decades behind consensual reality. As time goes by, they lag further and > become (comparatively) more conservative. In some areas they even move > backward. Part of this is the quest to become mainstream. This would not > bother me except for the fact that the church used to be WAY OUT THERE and > darned proud of it. > > Finally to my last gripe. During the last general conference, GBH refers to > "..so called gays and lesbians..." What is this "so called" crap? Kathleen > IS lesbian. Slick Rick WAS gay. I AM bisexual. There is no "so called" > about it. Does this mean that I get to call GBH a "so called straight"? I > wonder if GBH has ever spent a few hours with a gay man talking to him in an > honest effort to get inside of his psyche and really try to understand. If > not, I could line up just one or two volunteers. > > Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gripe and moan. > > -Andy > > PS My spell checker wanted to replace GBH with GmBH, the German equivalent > of Inc. or Corp. How revealing. Subject: [DONMEH] THE TIKKUN OF SABBATIAN HOLY APOSTASY: PART I Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:39:27 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: Theurgus@aol.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org Subj: [DONMEH] THE TIKKUN OF SABBATIAN HOLY APOSTASY: PART I Date: 11/5/98 8:42:30 AM Central Standard Time From: tiferet@hotmail.com (Yakov Leib HaKohain) Reply-to: DONMEH@onelist.com To: donmeh@onelist.com From: "Yakov Leib HaKohain" My dear Chaverim, Just as AMIRAH entered the "Maw of Satan" (as Jesus had done before him, incidently) to retrieve its Holy Sparks by conversion to Islam, Frank also did by bringing his followers into Christianity. Thus, Sabbatai's Tiqqun was between Isaac (YH = the Sephardim) and Ishmael (VH = the Gentiles of Asia Minor); while Frank's was between Jacob (YH = the Ashkenazim) and Esau (VH = the Gentiles of the Western Hemisphere). Early Christianity was based on pursuing this same Tiqqun, as shown in Paul's Letter to the Ephesians: "Do not forget, then, that there was a time when you Gentiles . . . had no Messiah and were excluded from membership in Israel, aliens with no part in the covenants with their Promise; you were immersed in this world [i.e., Assiah], without hope and without God. But now in Messiah Jesus, you [Gentiles] that used to be so far apart from us [Jews] have been brought very close, by the blood of Christ. For he is the peace between us, and has made the two into one and broken down the hostility [between us] . . . This was to create one single New Man in himself out of the two of them [Jew and Gentile] and by restoring peace through the cross unite them both [i.e., Tiqqun] in a single body and reconcile them to God." (Eph. 2:11-17) It is this "cross," this sacrifice of oneself for the Tiqqun of Jew and Gentile, that both Sabbatai and Frank, like Jesus before them, took up by their Holy Apostasies to Islam and Christianity. The same can be taken up, even today, by those of us who look to that day when "YHVH shall be One and His Name shall be One." In Part II of this series, I'll consider the alternatives to Holy Apostasy by which the same tikkunim can be achieved without the requirement of formal conversion by Jews to other religions, or visa versa. Raising up the Holy Sparks together, Yankif Leib (DONMEH-L Moderator) "When you are fit to come to Esau then the curse will be lifted from off the earth." -- Yakov Leib Frank Subject: Re: Fwd: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of the sparks Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 13:20:45 -0500 From: Michael Love To: Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" , "Theurgus@aol.com" , "jswick@cris.com" , "rds@acsu.buffalo.edu" , "proclus@mac.com" , "rpcman@hotmail.com" , "dcombe@rain.org" References: 1 Theurgus@aol.com wrote: > > Proclus, > > I would be grateful is you could > send a response to this as I have > lost the whole list. Thanks man. > > Ken No problem. So, how are you doing, man! So, what is the raising of the sparks? To me, this implies a kind of personal development system, a theurgy leading to some kind of apotheosis. Is it a sufic concept? It reminds me of some of the Neoplatonic and Gnostic material, which calls us the sparks of god. The trick, as always, is permanent mutation. Otherwise, you always have to return to the world of "life and death", "knowledge and ignorance", "pleasure and pain". On the other hand, there is still enough of the materialist in me that thinks that the theurgy is best done in this world. It is sometimes better to feed hungry bellys, than to elevated clouded minds. The work must be practical. Do we merely immanitize the eschaton? We were not given power over the physical for no reason. If we continue operating, surprising results will be forthcoming. Finally, the kingdom of god will be built on this earth. After all, it is already within us. I found the poem intriguing. Regards, proclus > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of the sparks > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:54:59 EST > From: Shaksway@aol.com > Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com > To: DONMEH@onelist.com > > From: Shaksway@aol.com > > The Light of the Imam > > Ulimately there is only Reality (Allah): > it is beyond creation and non-creation; > it is beyond life and death; > it is beyond the infinite and the finite; > it is beoynd knowledge and ignorance; > it is beyond pleasure and pain; > it is behond heaven and hell; > it is beyond nirvana and samsara > it is beyond the One and the many; > and yet the Real can be known. > >From the very beginninglessness > the Real has shown its Light > and that Light manifested itself in the world of form. > >From Imam Adam to Imam Karim Aga Khan IV > there has never been a time > when this world was without the Light. > The Imam?s Light reaches out > and sparks up the divine light within. > Light upon Light > and so we are raised up, > awakening into Reality > > (c) 1998 Jim Davis > -- Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a C++ UUI++$ P L E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Re: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of thesparks Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:29:42 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org CC: m-kabbalah@egroups.com Proclus and All, "Raising the Sparks" is a concept developed by Isaac Luria of Safed, Palestine. It's an explicitly Gnostic idea that "awarness-itself"...consciousness...is entangled in matter in such a way that it suffers fear, confusion and loneliness. "Raising the Sparks" is the work of an "awake" person making contact with the "awareness- itself" of others (person, animal or "thing") so as to provide an opening back to the source and origin of "awarness-itself". This is how the "Mormon" concept of a "chain of saviors" going back to Adam is supposed to work. When the "awarness-itself" of two being "touch", there is a union this is like the joining of beads of mercury. This is what sex and love and true friendship is supposed to be for. Shabbat Shalom, Kenneth Shaw Theurgus@aol.com wrote: > > Proclus, > > I would be grateful is you could > send a response to this as I have > lost the whole list. Thanks man. > > Ken No problem. So, how are you doing, man! So, what is the raising of the sparks? To me, this implies a kind of personal development system, a theurgy leading to some kind of apotheosis. Is it a sufic concept? It reminds me of some of the Neoplatonic and Gnostic material, which calls us the sparks of god. The trick, as always, is permanent mutation. Otherwise, you always have to return to the world of "life and death", "knowledge and ignorance", "pleasure and pain". On the other hand, there is still enough of the materialist in me that thinks that the theurgy is best done in this world. It is sometimes better to feed hungry bellys, than to elevated clouded minds. The work must be practical. Do we merely immanitize the eschaton? We were not given power over the physical for no reason. If we continue operating, surprising results will be forthcoming. Finally, the kingdom of god will be built on this earth. After all, it is already within us. I found the poem intriguing. Regards, proclus > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of the sparks > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:54:59 EST > From: Shaksway@aol.com > Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com > To: DONMEH@onelist.com > > From: Shaksway@aol.com > > The Light of the Imam > > Ulimately there is only Reality (Allah): > it is beyond creation and non-creation; > it is beyond life and death; > it is beyond the infinite and the finite; > it is beoynd knowledge and ignorance; > it is beyond pleasure and pain; > it is behond heaven and hell; > it is beyond nirvana and samsara > it is beyond the One and the many; > and yet the Real can be known. > >From the very beginninglessness > the Real has shown its Light > and that Light manifested itself in the world of form. > >From Imam Adam to Imam Karim Aga Khan IV > there has never been a time > when this world was without the Light. > The Imam?s Light reaches out > and sparks up the divine light within. > Light upon Light > and so we are raised up, > awakening into Reality > > (c) 1998 Jim Davis > Subject: Re: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of thesparks Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 22:25:17 -0500 From: Michael Love To: Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" , "Theurgus@aol.com" , "jswick@cris.com" , "rds@acsu.buffalo.edu" , "proclus@mac.com" , "rpcman@hotmail.com" , "dcombe@rain.org" References: 1 I just cannot imagine that we are "entangled in matter". Rather, we ennoble the matter that we inhabit. It is an opportunity for us to expand our power. Great effort was expended to provide us with this opportunity, to provide us with this world. We are eternal consciouness. We have extended ourselves into the present so-called physical plane in order to escape rising entropy in the expanding universe. _We_ are _already_ the subtle matter. The source is collapsing. It is a great priviledge to be here. Back is the wrong way to go. We created the opportunity for our incarnation. We are here with our friends. Our mission is now to build the next subtle gateway in order to escape the next entropy wave. We don't have much time. We had better get busy. Did you see The Fifth Element? "Time not important. Only life is important." We are the keepers of the key. What I am talking about is uploading technology, in the extropian sense. Save the universe. Make a robot (clem clone) of yourself. Launch it into space. (grinzies) proclus Theurgus@aol.com wrote: > > Proclus and All, > > "Raising the Sparks" is a concept developed by Isaac Luria of Safed, > Palestine. > It's an explicitly Gnostic idea that "awarness-itself"...consciousness...is > entangled > in matter in such a way that it suffers fear, confusion and loneliness. > "Raising > the Sparks" is the work of an "awake" person making contact with the > "awareness- > itself" of others (person, animal or "thing") so as to provide an opening back > to > the source and origin of "awarness-itself". This is how the "Mormon" concept > of a "chain of saviors" going back to Adam is supposed to work. When the > "awarness-itself" of two being "touch", there is a union this is like the > joining of > beads of mercury. This is what sex and love and true friendship is supposed > to > be for. > > Shabbat Shalom, > Kenneth Shaw > > Theurgus@aol.com wrote: > > > > Proclus, > > > > I would be grateful is you could > > send a response to this as I have > > lost the whole list. Thanks man. > > > > Ken > > No problem. So, how are you doing, man! > > So, what is the raising of the sparks? To me, this implies a kind of > personal development system, a theurgy leading to some kind of > apotheosis. Is it a sufic concept? It reminds me of some of the > Neoplatonic and Gnostic material, which calls us the sparks of god. > > The trick, as always, is permanent mutation. Otherwise, you always have > to return to the world of "life and death", "knowledge and ignorance", > "pleasure and pain". On the other hand, there is still enough of the > materialist in me that thinks that the theurgy is best done in this > world. It is sometimes better to feed hungry bellys, than to elevated > clouded minds. The work must be practical. Do we merely immanitize the > eschaton? We were not given power over the physical for no reason. If > we continue operating, surprising results will be forthcoming. Finally, > the kingdom of god will be built on this earth. After all, it is > already within us. I found the poem intriguing. > > Regards, > proclus > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Subject: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of the sparks > > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:54:59 EST > > From: Shaksway@aol.com > > Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com > > To: DONMEH@onelist.com > > > > From: Shaksway@aol.com > > > > The Light of the Imam > > > > Ulimately there is only Reality (Allah): > > it is beyond creation and non-creation; > > it is beyond life and death; > > it is beyond the infinite and the finite; > > it is beoynd knowledge and ignorance; > > it is beyond pleasure and pain; > > it is behond heaven and hell; > > it is beyond nirvana and samsara > > it is beyond the One and the many; > > and yet the Real can be known. > > >From the very beginninglessness > > the Real has shown its Light > > and that Light manifested itself in the world of form. > > >From Imam Adam to Imam Karim Aga Khan IV > > there has never been a time > > when this world was without the Light. > > The Imam?s Light reaches out > > and sparks up the divine light within. > > Light upon Light > > and so we are raised up, > > awakening into Reality > > > > (c) 1998 Jim Davis > > -- Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a C++ UUI++$ P L E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: [DONMEH] Welcome to DONMEH@onelist.com] Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 08:18:42 -0500 From: Michael Love To: "proclus@mac.com" Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] Welcome to DONMEH@onelist.com Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 01:59:46 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com Subject: [DONMEH] Welcome to DONMEH@onelist.com Date: 5 Nov 1998 06:58:47 -0000 From: DONMEH-owner@onelist.com Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: Theurgus@aol.com "For everything that lives is holy." --William Blake Shalom Chaver, Welcome to the DONMEH-L! This Mission Statement and Guidelines is divided into the following sections: 1) WHAT IS THE MISSION OF THE DONMEH-L?; 2) WHO WERE SABBATAI ZEVI AND YAKOV LEIB FRANK?; and 3) WHAT ARE THE GUIDELINES FOR PARTICIPATING IN THESE DISCUSSIONS? WHAT IS THE MISSION OF THE DONMEH-L? The mission of the DONMEH-L is to gather together as many people (Jew and non-Jew alike) as possible who share an interest in (and perhaps a commitment to) the Kabbalah of the 17th century Jewish avatar, Sabbatai Zevi and his 18th century successor, Yakov Leib Frank -- both of whom enunciated, among other antinomian doctrines, that of "Holy Apostasy" based on the Zohar and the theosophy of the 16th century Jewish mystic, Reb Isaac Luria of Safed. To the best of our knowledge, DONMEH-L is the only undertaking of its kind West of Constantinople, and there is certainly nothing else exactly like it on the Internet. We do this thing in response to Prof. Gershom Scholem's question: "Was it [Sabbatai Zevi's advent] not a great opportunity missed, rather than a big lie? A victory of the hostile powers rather than the collapse of a vain thing?" (Sabbatai Sevi: The Mystical Messiah, page 929. Princeton University Press,1975.) I invite you to pursue the answer to that question with the rest of us who have come together in this electronic community. WHO WERE SABBATAI ZEVI AND YAKOV LEIB FRANK? DONMEH-L is dedicated to a discussion of the Jewish Kabbalah, particularly as it applies to Sabbatai Zevi, a 17th century mystic living in Constantinople who announced in 1665 that he was the promised Messiah and an incarnation of the Jewish Godhead. Sabbatai's claims, as put forward by his "prophet" Nathan of Gaza, were accepted by literally the entire Jewish Diaspora. However, in 1666, he went before the Sultan of Turkey and converted to Islam in an act which Nathan was to later call, "Holy Apostasy," by which the "Dragons sleeping at the bottom of the river" were "awakened.". Although Sabbatai's actions put an end to his movement world-wide (just as Christ's claim to have eatable flesh and drinkable blood almost destroyed his before him) thousands of Jews followed Sabbatai into Islam and also Christianity. To this day, the "Donmeh" in Turkey is a group of Jewish Muslims who continue to worship Sabbatai secretly as the Messiah and an incarnation of God. (After your first "Maiden Post," I will send you more background material about Sabbatai and Frank by E-mail.) WHAT ARE THE GUIDELINES FOR PARTICIPATING IN THESE DISCUSSIONS? The DONMEH-L is a discussion forum with a point-of-view: a commitment to exploring the truths of the Jewish Kabbalah in general, and those of Sabbatai Zevi and Yakov Leib Frank in particular as a viable starting-point for modern spiritual practice. However, by its very nature, Sabbatian Kabbalah is a universalist theosophy, incorporating elements of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and a variety of Eastern mystical traditions as Vedanta and Buddhism. Consequently, the following ground-rules will apply to all posts: 1. Although discussion of Kabbalah relative to other mystical and religious traditions is encouraged, debates over the merits of one versus the other will not be accepted. This is not an "open forum" for the critique of Sabbatian Kabbalah and related issues, but a learning community of like-minded Chaverim (Hebrew = Comrades) pursuing the Repair of God. 2. Subscribers who consistently reject or seek to diminish the teachings and practice of Sabbatian Kabbalah will be removed from the list and advised to find a more suitable forum for their particular belief systems. 3. Each new subscriber is asked to send a "Maiden Post" describing something of their background and reasons for joining the DONMEH-L. 4. Finally, the following will not be tolerated on the list: a. Religious proselytizing b. Disrespect for other subscribers c.. Discussion of personal religious experiences outside the specific purview of DONMEH-L and related mystical systems d.. Profane or sexually offensive language e. Advertisements for other lists or SPAM f. On-list "socializing" g. Disrespect for any religious and/or mystical tradition h. Bickering I. Posts unrelated to the Mission Statement of DONMEH-L Please feel free to participate in the DONMEH-L at whatever level level of discussion you feel comfortable with. We're just happy to have you with us. Zhay gezunt. Raising up the Holy Sparks together, Yankif Leib HaKohain (DONMEH-L Moderator) "Was it not a great opportunity missed, rather than a big lie? A victory of the hostile powers, rather than the collapse of a vain thing?" --Prof. Gershom Scholem Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: PART V Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:06:44 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com Subject: [DONMEH] THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: PART V Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:43:06 GMT From: "Yakov Leib HaKohain" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: donmeh@onelist.com From: "Yakov Leib HaKohain" My dear Chaverim, This is the fifth installment -- "On the Holy Sparks and Their Redemption" -- in our transmission of the rare Hasidic text from my personal library, THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS ON INTERCOURSE WITH GOD, as translated by Martin Buber.You can find the first four installments by searching the Donmeh Archives for "Sparks." Israel ben Eliezer, the Baal Shem Tov, or BeSHT ("Master of the Divine Name") was born in the Ukraine in 1700 and died in Podolia in 1760. He was the founder of mystical Hasidism which was, to a large extent, a reaction to and legitimization of the Sabbatian events of 1665-1666. Like Sabbatai Zevi (called AMIRAH by his Believers), the BeSHT's had clear antinomian tendencies which were, however, unlike those of Sabbatai, more acceptable to mainstream Judaism. Zhay gezunt. Serving God by gathering the Holy Sparks, Yankif Leib (DONMEH-L Moderator) "A man who busies himself with matters pertaining to AMIRAH, even by telling stories [of him] only, is considered like one who studies the mysteries of the merkabah." --Nathan of Gaza, The Holy Lamp ====================================================================== THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTION IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: ON THE HOLY SPARKS AND THEIR REDEMPTION 1. The holy sparks that fell when God built and destroyed the worlds, man shall raise and purify upward from stone to plant, from plant to animal, from animal to speaking being, purify the holy sparks that are imprisoned in the world of shells. [COMMENT: According to the Jewish Oral Scriptures (Midrash Rabba, Genesis 1:5 and 1:31) God created and cast away many worlds before He created this one. But only the 16th century Kabbalah of Isaac Luria gives this pre-creation a greater meaning than that of a gradual perfecting. According to Luria -- and all Kabbalists who came after him, including the "Big Bang" theorists of modern astro-physics -- there was a "Shattering of the Vessels" at the moment of creation from which "holy sparks" have fallen into the "shells" -- the separating, hindering, demonic "enclosures" that alone are "evil." But these sparks fell in order to be raised: for the sake of man's working in partnership with God on the redemption of the universe, they were created and fell.] 2. All that man has, his servant, his animals, his tools, all conceal sparks that belong to the roots of his soul and wish to be raised by him to their Source. [COMMENT: This "raising of the sparks" is called "Tikkun," or "repair." For a discussion of how each of us can participate in this great task, initiated by Sabbatai Zevi in 1665, see my archived posts on "Tikkunim for the 21st Century" and "How to Make Tikkun the Easy Way.] 3. All things of this world that belong to a person desire with all their might to draw near him in order that the sparks of holiness that are in them should be raised by him. [COMMENT: It was for this reason that St. Francis of Assisi is said to have preached to the animals, and the Baal Shem Tov "knew the language of birds." Also, see my post on Gilgulim and my departed German Shepherd, Dodi.] 4. Man eats them, man drinks them, man uses them; these are the sparks that dwell in the things. Therefore, one should have mercy on his tools and all his possessions for the sake of the sparks that are in them; one should have mercy on the holy sparks. [COMMENT: The notion of the Holy Sparks and their Tikkun invests all of life -- from the most profound to the most trivial -- with sacramental significance.] 5. Take care that all you do for God's sake be itself service of God. Thus eating: do not say that the intention of eating shall be that you gain strength. This is a good intention, of course; but the true perfection only exists where the deed itself happens to heaven, for that is where the holy sparks are raised. [COMMENT: Do everything you do with the primary intention of liberating the holy sparks contained in whatever it is you touch and do. For example: when you eat, don't eat only to nourish or please yourself, but rather to release and raise up the holy sparks contained in your food. Again, archive my post, "How to Make Tikkun the Easy Way."] 6. In all that is in the world dwell holy sparks, no thing is empty of them. In the actions of men also, indeed even in the sins that a man does, dwell holy sparks of the glory of God. And what is it that the sparks await that dwell in the sins? It is the Turning. In the hour where you turn from a sin you have embraced you raise the holy spark entrapped by it to the Higher World of Heaven. [COMMENT: The "Great Maggid," the disciple personally chosen by the Baal Shem Tov to succeed him said, "The Holy Spark lies hidden in sin as oil in the olive." Thus, the antinomianism of Sabbatian Kabbalah is brought into nominal Judaism by the Hassidus of the BeSHT.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information. Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: P... Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:16:45 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com Subject: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: PART V Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:11:07 +0300 From: "Evgueni Tortchinov" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: From: "Evgueni Tortchinov" SnowfireL wrote: > << OMMENT: This "raising of the sparks" is called "Tikkun," or "repair." > For a discussion of how each of us can participate in this great task, > initiated by Sabbatai Zevi in 1665, see my archived posts on "Tikkunim > for the 21st Century" and "How to Make Tikkun the Easy Way.] >> > > Hello, > This discourse I believe is similar to: "We all came from God, and we all must > go back to Him." > SnowfireL > **************************************************************************** ******** Evgueni wrote: Yes, certainly, the idea of "going back to God" is the central for the doctrine of the "raising up Holy Sparks". But this raising up is not simple returning of the souls into the abyss of Deus Absconditus, or transcendent impersonal Absolute (like in the Shuddhadvaita vedanta of Vallabha who taught that the souls are sparks of Brahman/Absolute which time by time leave His fire and come back to Him). The Lurianic and predominantly based on "Sefer ha-Zohar" Sabbatian Kabbalah teaches about a very dynamic and controversial (even dialectical in almost Schellingian sense of this word) process of self explication and self construction of the Absolute (as well as His liberation from even the shadow of the roots of evil) which at the process of tikkun (Restoration, or Universal Correction) unfolds the unlimited richness of His contents in the system of Personalities, or Hypostases (Partzufim). Therefore, the World of Restoration ('Olam Tikkun) is not equal (but is not different as well) to the world of 'Or En-Sof (Ultimateless Light, or Absolute) of the beginning. Tikkun 'Olam is of the same nature as 'Or En-Sof but it is not simplicity and potentiality but concrete unity of differences and actuality. And the process of Tikkun is called "the repairing of the God's Face" because it corrects the existential break, or gap in the Absolute Being as such which is also a moment in His unfolding. Raising up Holy Sparks together! With good regards, Evgueni > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a jump start on your web site? XOOM.com Web Site Templates 250 helps you get your site up and running in no time. Only $29.95! http://orders.xoom.com/tmp/lstmp1105/ Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: P... Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:45:15 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com Subject: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: PA... Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:09:00 +1100 From: "M.Alan" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: DONMEH@onelist.com References: 1 From: "M.Alan" SnowfireL@aol.com wrote: > From: SnowfireL@aol.com > > In a message dated 11/7/98 11:41:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, > blade@comset.net > writes: > > << Evgueni wrote: Yes, certainly, the idea of "going back to God" is > the > central for the doctrine of the "raising up Holy Sparks". But this > raising > up is not simple returning of the souls into the abyss of Deus > Absconditus, > or transcendent impersonal Absolute (like in the Shuddhadvaita > vedanta of > Vallabha who taught that the souls are sparks of Brahman/Absolute > which > time by time leave His fire and come back to Him). >> > > It's not! We retain our identies after we go back to Him go we on > to live > throughout etenity with Him, isn't that a wonderful feeling to have? > SnowfireL here we have the classic conundrum of duality verses monism. I personally am a monist, although a qualified monist - i.e. I prefer the Kashmir Shaivite, Neoplatonic, and Kabbalistic theme of the One that becomes Many, so that the Many are Real just as the One is - rather than the absolute monism of Shankara (although I admit the latter has validity as well (from the standpoint of Absolute Consciousness)). For the Monist the many return to the One, for the Dualist the many remain as seperate souls or sparks even in the bosom of the One. Perhaps, as Sri Aurobindo suggests, the liberated soul can choose to merge or to remain eternally separate, in which case both perspectives are correct. One thing is certain however, the soul that transcends the phenomenal world for liberation - even liberation as a seperate identity in the bosom of the Godhead, is not the you or I or limited ego of this world. It is a very very serious problem in the part of exoteric religions that they think that this finite ego-personality continues for all eternity. But if SnowfireL is discussing the pure Sirit, the purusha, the Spark, then provided their is teh proviso "if we so choose" I have absolutely no objections whatsoever to that idea. > The Lurianic and predominantly based on "Sefer ha-Zohar" Sabbatian > Kabbalah > teaches about a > very dynamic and controversial (even dialectical in almost > Schellingian > sense of this word) process of self explication and self construction > of > the Absolute (as well as His liberation from even the shadow of the > roots > of evil) which at the process of tikkun (Restoration, or Universal > Correction) unfolds the unlimited richness of His contents in the > system of > Personalities, or Hypostases (Partzufim). Therefore, the World of > Restoration ('Olam Tikkun) is not equal (but is not different as > well) to > the world of 'Or En-Sof (Ultimateless Light, or Absolute) of the > beginning. > Tikkun 'Olam is of the same nature as 'Or En-Sof but it is not > simplicity > and potentiality but concrete unity of differences and actuality. And > the > process of Tikkun is called "the repairing of the God's Face" because > it > corrects the existential break,>> > > This "break" is what He wanted, for He is not missing His parts but is > growing > them so to speak. God can strench the Heavens as far as He wants them > to be. > SnowfireL >From the Absolute point of view there can be no "fall" - no imperfection - only the unfolding of the Godhead. This goes even for the "breaking of the vessels" of Lurianic thought. But from the cosmic and infra-cosmic perspective (including our own tiny oints of view) there would be a Fall, a pre-cosmic catastrophe and teh origin of suffering. M.Alan Proteus ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a jump start on your web site? XOOM.com Web Site Templates 250 helps you get your site up and running in no time. Only $29.95! http://orders.xoom.com/tmp/lstmp1105/ Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] THE PLACE OF JESUS IN SABBATIAN THEOLOGY Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:19:58 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.comkathleenenol.com, trent@goodnet.co m, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com CC: kshaw@dalsemi.com Subject: [DONMEH] THE PLACE OF JESUS IN SABBATIAN THEOLOGY Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:34:46 GMT From: "Yakov Leib HaKohain" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: donmeh@onelist.com From: "Yakov Leib HaKohain" My dear Chaverim, I have already discussed this sensitive topic in an essay I published a few years ago, titled "To Die for the People: A Jewish Interpretation of the Crucifixion of Christ," in the Catholic journal, THE PRIEST. Here, I want to look a little more closely at the role of Jesus in Sabbatian Messianism. JEWISH ATTITUDES TOWARDS JESUS To begin with, there are two classes of attitudes toward Jesus among the Jewish people: these are "sociological" and "theological." The First, by far the most commonly known and expressed, is the result of almost two thousand years of persecution by the Church and are, therefore, fundamentally negative; the Second, less well known and less often discussed, is also less negative and more accommodating. It is this second class of attitudes toward Jesus among the Jews that I wish to discuss here before describing his role in Sabbatian theology. To begin with the great Rabbi and Jewish philosopher Maimonides (1135-1204) wrote in his monumental work, Mishnah Torah, "Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth . . . will only serve to prepare the way for the Messiah's coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the Gentiles to serve God together [with the Jews]." (Hilchot Melachim U'Milchamoteihem 11:4) In modern times, a leading Hasidic rabbi confided, "We [religious Jews] believe that Jesus was taken away from [us]. He was a great power, he could have been a great Tzaddik [Jewish Saint], but he was drawn to the other [Gentile] side of the fence." (Quoted in "Legends of the Hasidim" by Jerome R. Mintz, University of Chicago Press.) Moreover, the Talmud, in fact, acknowledges Jesus as a legitimate heir to the Throne of David -- which is to say, in the Messianic succession: "On the eve of the Passover Jesus was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ?He is going to be stoned [in preparation for crucifixion] because he practiced sorcery to which he enticed Israel to apostasy, But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged [from a cross] on the eve of Passover. Before that, Rabbi ?Ulla stated: ?Do you suppose we could find him innocent? After all, the penalty for sorcery is not death. ? To which the others said that was true for common Israelites, but with Jesus it was different, for he was descended from royalty." (Tr. Sanhedrin 43a) The fact is, that before Paul took the message of the Jewish Messiah to the Gentiles, Jesus's following consisted entirely of Jews. The "multitudes" who thronged to him, the thousands who followed him -- all were Jews. In fact the Jerusalem Church of Peter and James required that any Gentile should first convert to Judaism before he or she could become a "christian." It was Paul, through his Church of Antioch, who extended inclusion in the Community of Israel to the Gentiles without their prior conversion to Judaism, but simply by receiving baptism in Christ. Thus, by the time of Sabbatai Zevi in 1665 feelings toward Jesus were decidedly mixed among Jewish theologians. Prior to that there had been several rabbis who secretly approved of his teachings, and were excommunicated for their beliefs when they were discovered. (See the Midrash Rabba.) So into that milieu came the Messiah, Sabbatai Zevi and, a century later, his spiritual successor Yakov Leib Frank. What did they teach about Jesus? JESUS IN SABBATIAN THEOLOGY Nathan of Gaza, the prime framer of Sabbatian theology, wrote: "[Sabbatai Zevi] will restore to holiness his qelippah, which is Jesus Christ." (Be'Iqvoth Mashiach) What this means simply is that Jesus was believed to be the "shell" which surrounded the advent of Sabbatai Zevi who would restore Christ to his rightful place of holiness among the Jews. Concerning this, Gershom Scholem writes, "One has to realize the significance -- for seventeenth century Jewish minds -- of the doctrine [espoused by Nathan of Gaza] of the eschatological restoration of Jesus to his people [the Jews] and to his ?holy root' . . . Nathan's vision [of] Sabbatai redeeming the soul of Jesus . . . is an exact analogy, nay, anticipation of the later Hasidic legend [in which the Baal Shem Tov] attempted to save the soul of Sabbatai Zevi." ("Sabbatai Zevi: The Mystical Messiah, p. 286) Yakov Leib Frank, Sabbatai's 18th century Messianic heir, saw himself even more clearly in a direct line of succession from Jesus. He states, "In a dream I saw [Jesus Christ] sitting -- and around him were Catholic priests -- by a fountain of good pure water; and when I looked closely I saw that the fountain flowed out from there [where Jesus sat] and came to me." And again, "I will show you the Holy One, Blessed be He [Yahweh], for in me is Strength and Governance, and the Holy One, Blessed be He, has chosen me and they have revealed to me from heaven what to do." Thus, both Sabbatai and Frank believed their mission was, in part, to restore holiness to Jesus and return him to the Jewish people. This, of course, was at the foundation of the Great Tikkun they initiated to redeem the world and which we, in this Donmeh, have immodestly taken up.. Raising up the Holy Sparks together, Yakov Leib (DONMEH-L Moderator) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Did you ever want to participate in video chats, send real-time video and video mail? Now you can, AND at a super low price--ONLY $89.95! http://orders.xoom.com/zvc/emzvc921 Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] "What is G-D?" Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:22:24 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com CC: kshaw@dalsemi.com Subject: [DONMEH] "What is G-D?" Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:31:14 PST From: "Niq 'Illah" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: DONMEH@onelist.com From: "Niq 'Illah" The answer is, "yes, exactly". I noticed something in an earlier post that was tagged to Yakov Leib's signature - I am prefacing this here for reference only: "Anyone who says, 'I am a God,' let him come and complete this [North quarter of the world] which I have left incomplete, and all will know that he is a God." -- Prike den Rabbi Eliezer (1st Century A.D. Midrash) I think this statement from Rav Eliezer needs better explanation. The potential negative aspect I see in this is that it encourages a state of "dualism" within the minds of those who read it. There is ONLY HaShem, nothing alone exists. To say that we are separated from HaShem is actually a re-affirmation of the fall into separation, and separation from HaShem is sin. I do not feel that Rav Eliezer (or our friend Yakov Leib) are encouraging dualism, it is more likely that attention is being focussed upon the impious who approach G-D full of ego (identification of 'self' separation) as opposed to emptiness (non-self, or complete submission to G-D). This is shown by the last line of Rav Eliezers statement which is: "all will know that he is a G-d". This statement in and of itself reflects the meaning of the passage - "he is a g-d" implies an equal to G-D. But there are no "equals" to G-D because ALL is G-D. Rav Eliezer is directing this to the many who crave "personal power" and esteem themselves to be great in thier own eyes, when in fact they are only pompous and foolish. Love is the vehicle that raises Holy sparks, it is also the gateway back to unity with HaShem. We must always be carefull with statements like Rav Eliezars because they are often taken out of context as a means to reinforce a separation of the psyche from the richness of G-D's many blessings. How is it then that Sabbatai Szevi as well as Master Yeshua and many other great teachers have claimed unity with HaShem and it can be considered by many in a non-blasphemous way? It is because in unity there is NO duality. Only G-D exists! Only someone separated from G-D would ever think an affirmation of unity like this to be evil. It is a rather funny catch-22 dont you think? The only thing that separates us from that bliss of unity with G-D is our own mis-identification with duality and separation. We have forgotten what it is to be unified within G-D and yet we all have a foggy memory of this within all of us which fills the heart of the seeker with longing in this world - we long for that peace, that unity once again. We long for Holiness but do not quite understand what it is - we need to understand that Holiness is a reflection of the divine within our hearts. Individualy, we are not holy, HaShem alone is Holy. Once unified with G-D, all of this comes together within us as we then begin to truely reflect G-D's love, beauty and Holiness into the world. Rav Eliezer asks that all those who claim to 'be' G-D reform aspects of creation that he feels to be incomplete ... this is a Qabalistic metaphor as much as it is a challenge. Take the challenge, just remember that the unformed 'incomplete' aspect is within you, not outside of you, and that G-D is the doer. May all of your longings for Truth be fullfilled in the light of HaShem! Good Shabbos! Salaam 'Liquum (peace INTO you), NQLLH ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Are you ready to put all of your color pictures on your website or email them to friends? XOOM.com has high quality scanners for only $69.95! http://orders.xoom.com/scn/lsscn1105/ Subject: Re: [DONMEH] An ismaili poem dealing with the raising of thesparks Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:43:10 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com CC: Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" , "Theurgus@aol.com" , "jswick@cris.com" , "rds@acsu.buffalo.edu" , "rpcman@hotmail.com" , "dcombe@rain.org" >>I just cannot imagine that we are "entangled in matter". Rather, we >>ennoble the matter that we inhabit. It is an opportunity for us to >>expand our power. Great effort was expended to provide us with this >>opportunity, to provide us with this world. >>We are eternal consciouness. We have extended ourselves into the >>present so-called physical plane in order to escape rising entropy in >>the expanding universe. _We_ are _already_ the subtle matter. The >>source is collapsing. It is a great priviledge to be here. Back is the >>wrong way to go. In Sufi theory, since "awareness-itself" is non other than "The Absolute- Itself", matter is just a "projection" from consciousness, and the problem is one of "ingnorance" rather than some kind of dualistic entrapment in an "alien" state. But if you go back to the story of "The Islanders" you'll see that it says that the entry of consciousness into the "vehicle" of embodyment is very difficult and disorienting. Thanks man, Ken Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: P... Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:45:15 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com Subject: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: PA... Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 14:09:00 +1100 From: "M.Alan" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: DONMEH@onelist.com References: 1 From: "M.Alan" SnowfireL@aol.com wrote: > From: SnowfireL@aol.com > > In a message dated 11/7/98 11:41:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, > blade@comset.net > writes: > > << Evgueni wrote: Yes, certainly, the idea of "going back to God" is > the > central for the doctrine of the "raising up Holy Sparks". But this > raising > up is not simple returning of the souls into the abyss of Deus > Absconditus, > or transcendent impersonal Absolute (like in the Shuddhadvaita > vedanta of > Vallabha who taught that the souls are sparks of Brahman/Absolute > which > time by time leave His fire and come back to Him). >> > > It's not! We retain our identies after we go back to Him go we on > to live > throughout etenity with Him, isn't that a wonderful feeling to have? > SnowfireL here we have the classic conundrum of duality verses monism. I personally am a monist, although a qualified monist - i.e. I prefer the Kashmir Shaivite, Neoplatonic, and Kabbalistic theme of the One that becomes Many, so that the Many are Real just as the One is - rather than the absolute monism of Shankara (although I admit the latter has validity as well (from the standpoint of Absolute Consciousness)). For the Monist the many return to the One, for the Dualist the many remain as seperate souls or sparks even in the bosom of the One. Perhaps, as Sri Aurobindo suggests, the liberated soul can choose to merge or to remain eternally separate, in which case both perspectives are correct. One thing is certain however, the soul that transcends the phenomenal world for liberation - even liberation as a seperate identity in the bosom of the Godhead, is not the you or I or limited ego of this world. It is a very very serious problem in the part of exoteric religions that they think that this finite ego-personality continues for all eternity. But if SnowfireL is discussing the pure Sirit, the purusha, the Spark, then provided their is teh proviso "if we so choose" I have absolutely no objections whatsoever to that idea. > The Lurianic and predominantly based on "Sefer ha-Zohar" Sabbatian > Kabbalah > teaches about a > very dynamic and controversial (even dialectical in almost > Schellingian > sense of this word) process of self explication and self construction > of > the Absolute (as well as His liberation from even the shadow of the > roots > of evil) which at the process of tikkun (Restoration, or Universal > Correction) unfolds the unlimited richness of His contents in the > system of > Personalities, or Hypostases (Partzufim). Therefore, the World of > Restoration ('Olam Tikkun) is not equal (but is not different as > well) to > the world of 'Or En-Sof (Ultimateless Light, or Absolute) of the > beginning. > Tikkun 'Olam is of the same nature as 'Or En-Sof but it is not > simplicity > and potentiality but concrete unity of differences and actuality. And > the > process of Tikkun is called "the repairing of the God's Face" because > it > corrects the existential break,>> > > This "break" is what He wanted, for He is not missing His parts but is > growing > them so to speak. God can strench the Heavens as far as He wants them > to be. > SnowfireL >From the Absolute point of view there can be no "fall" - no imp erfection - only the unfolding of the Godhead. This goes even for the "breaking of the vessels" of Lurianic thought. But from the cosmic and infra-cosmic perspective (including our own tiny oints of view) there would be a Fall, a pre-cosmic catastrophe and teh origin of suffering. M.Alan Proteus ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a jump start on your web site? XOOM.com Web Site Templates 250 helps you get your site up and running in no time. Only $29.95! http://orders.xoom.com/tmp/lstmp1105/ Subject: Fwd: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: P... Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:16:45 -0500 (EST) From: Theurgus@aol.com To: proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com, dcombe@rain.org, m-kabbalah@egroups.com Subject: [DONMEH] Re: THE BAAL SHEM TOV'S INSTRUCTIONS IN INTERCOURSE WITH GOD: PART V Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:11:07 +0300 From: "Evgueni Tortchinov" Reply-To: DONMEH@onelist.com To: From: "Evgueni Tortchinov" SnowfireL wrote: > << OMMENT: This "raising of the sparks" is called "Tikkun," or "repair." > For a discussion of how each of us can participate in this great task, > initiated by Sabbatai Zevi in 1665, see my archived posts on "Tikkunim > for the 21st Century" and "How to Make Tikkun the Easy Way.] >> > > Hello, > This discourse I believe is similar to: "We all came from God, and we all must > go back to Him." > SnowfireL > **************************************************************************** ******** Evgueni wrote: Yes, certainly, the idea of "going back to God" is the central for the doctrine of the "raising up Holy Sparks". But this raising up is not simple returning of the souls into the abyss of Deus Absconditus, or transcendent impersonal Absolute (like in the Shuddhadvaita vedanta of Vallabha who taught that the souls are sparks of Brahman/Absolute which time by time leave His fire and come back to Him). The Lurianic and predominantly based on "Sefer ha-Zohar" Sabbatian Kabbalah teaches about a very dynamic and controversial (even dialectical in almost Schellingian sense of this word) process of self explication and self construction of the Absolute (as well as His liberation from even the shadow of the roots of evil) which at the process of tikkun (Restoration, or Universal Correction) unfolds the unlimited richness of His contents in the system of Personalities, or Hypostases (Partzufim). Therefore, the World of Restoration ('Olam Tikkun) is not equal (but is not different as well) to the world of 'Or En-Sof (Ultimateless Light, or Absolute) of the beginning. Tikkun 'Olam is of the same nature as 'Or En-Sof but it is not simplicity and potentiality but concrete unity of differences and actuality. And the process of Tikkun is called "the repairing of the God's Face" because it corrects the existential break, or gap in the Absolute Being as such which is also a moment in His unfolding. Raising up Holy Sparks together! With good regards, Evgueni > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need a jump start on your web site? XOOM.com Web Site Templates 250 helps you get your site up and running in no time. Only $29.95! http://orders.xoom.com/tmp/lstmp1105/

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