If you want to join the discussion, just click here..
Back up to Mutant's Home

Re: green sash Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:35:10 +0000 From: "Robert R. Black" To: proclus , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , rpc man References: 1 Proclus, <<. The mind races ahead to the flaxen cord of the BOM >> The reference is to a necktie. I thought everyone knew this. Robert. ----- Original Message ----- From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire ArtdeHoyos Beth any Dave Enoch Shemna Joe Steve Swick III Kathleen McGuire Ken Shaw Kerry Shirts Michael J. Pierce proclus R. Trent Reynolds Randall Shortridge Robert R. Black rpc man Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 1:24 AM Subject: green sash > Thanks for that interesting link to the masonic southern jurisdiction > and temple in Washington. I particularly enjoyed the regalia of the > scottish rite degrees. Of course, I was looking for a green sash. > Gawain is my hobby, you know. In this regard, the regalia of the 15th > degree is particularly interesting. The green on red is a motif > throughout Gawain's story. Stiking how this is the first degree with > the title of knight. =} > > Here's the link again, for those who want it, and a link right to the > regalia as well. Fascinating stuff. > > http://www.srmason-sj.org/index.html > http://www.srmason-sj.org/council/temple/regalia.htm > > Andy may appreciate that I was also intrigued by the 23rd degree, Chief > of the tabernacle. Chapel Perilous awaits us. The 28th Degree Knight > of the Sun, Prince Adept regalia was also intriguing in light of the > stellar initiation material we have discussed from the the Golden Dawn > and others. I imagine that it harks back to the blue lodge degrees as > well. The mind races ahead to the flaxen cord of the BOM and the > Starhawk's binding rituals as well. It appears that there is an > invisible link between us and our home among the stars. Heh, I'll stop > for now, before my mind races too far ;-}. > > Regards, > proclus > > > -- > Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ > V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- > r+++ y++++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > Subject: Re: green sash Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:47:49 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: proclus References: 1 ----- Original Message ----- From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire ArtdeHoyos Beth any Dave Enoch Shemna Joe Steve Swick III Kathleen McGuire Ken Shaw Kerry Shirts Michael J. Pierce proclus R. Trent Reynolds Randall Shortridge Robert R. Black rpc man Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 7:24 PM Subject: green sash > Thanks for that interesting link to the masonic southern jurisdiction > and temple in Washington. I particularly enjoyed the regalia of the > scottish rite degrees. Of course, I was looking for a green sash. > Gawain is my hobby, you know. In this regard, the regalia of the 15th > degree is particularly interesting. The green on red is a motif > throughout Gawain's story. Stiking how this is the first degree with > the title of knight. =} > > Here's the link again, for those who want it, and a link right to the > regalia as well. Fascinating stuff. Kerry says: Hey! Are you trying to get mystical on us again - GRIN! Subject: Pike and the Klan Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:33:21 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: Enoch Shemna , ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, black@accex.net, rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com References: 1 , 2 ___Todd J. Jumper___ I would like to bring to this list or either Joe and Art some quotes that Anthony J. Hilder blasts all over his material justifying his reasons for saying they are true. I will then ask him where he got his sources and make up my mind from there. ----- Personally, I'd love to see the quotes. I'm sure that this would be interesting for folks on any side of this issue. ___Todd J. Jumper___ One thing he told me is that Albert Pike started the Ku Klux Klan? Is that correct? ----- The short answer: No (see http://users.uniserve.com/~ttrevor/anti-masonry_faq.html#pike).The Klan was founded in Pulaski Tennessee by Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest (a native of that place) and five others (known as the "Pulaski Six") in late December 1865, in the law offices of Judge Thomas Jones. Forrest became its elected leader in 1867. The composition of the Klan oath and ritual is attributed to Confederate General George W. Gordon. Initially it was a social/fraternal club for Confederate veterans, apparently modeled along Masonic lines. However, it soon became a vigilante group known for violent coercion and intimidation (http://hatewatch.org/klan/kkk1.html). According to historian and noted Pike biographer Walter Lee Brown, no reliable evidence exists that Albert Pike was EVER a member, and certainly not an organizer or founder of the Klan: "Denied access to the ballott box, the disfrachised Confederates turned to extra legal methods to aid the Democratic cause in 1868. They made the Ku Klux Klan, originally a social organization, a vigilante's association and used it to intimidate blacks into absenting themselves from the polls. I have found no contemporary, nor no reliable late evidence that Pike ever joined the Klan. Yet in at least three unreliable histories of the Klan it is stated that he was either attorney general or a high-ranking official of the order. Allen W. Trelease, the most recent and most authoritative historian of the Klan casts doubt on Pike's membership. The Prescript, or constitution of the order provides for no such officer he says" (Brown, A Life of Albert Pike Albert Pike, Fayetteville: University of Arkansas Press, 1997, p. 439). Yet, while there is no evidence that Pike was a member, founder or organizer of the Ku Klux Klan, nor that he approved of its violent activities, it does appear that he was sympathetic with some of its fundamental aims. After all, Pike had served as a general for the Confederacy. What troubled men like Pike was the shape of the postwar Reconstruction efforts. While slaves had been freed by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, this was a far cry from full citizenship and rights of suffrage for Blacks. During his debates with Stephen Douglas, Lincoln himself had stated that "I have no purpose to produce political and social equality. I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes or of qualifying them to hold office." And, he had also said "frankly ... I am not in favor of Negro citizenship.... Now my opinion is that the different states have the power to make a Negro a citizen under the Constitution of the United States if they choose...If the state of Illinois had that power I should be opposed to the exercise of it." Plainly, these things had NOT been settled by the Civil War, and the South moved very slowly on resolving these issues. The North --led by Radical Republicans who desired to both punish the South and force quick change-- responded by refusing to recognize the legitimacy of postwar-elected Southern officials, and by refusing to re-admit them to the Union. It divided the South into military districts, denied ex-Confederates the right to vote or bear arms, often tried the same and punished them without the benefit of a court, and threatened permanent military governments unless southern states ratified the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, and adopted Black suffrage. While they were justified as a response to continued civil rights violations by the South, clearly and by any accounting, the various measures used to force Reconstruction were harsh. While the "reconstructed" states of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and North and South Carolina had been re-admitted to the Union by June 1868, most of the state governors, representatives and senators were Northern politicians, primarily allied with newly-freed Blacks. During this time, newly-freed Black Americans actually gained majorities in some state legislatures. Full citizenship and suffrage of Blacks was a hot issue, with many Southern Whites fearing sudden loss of social order and political power. Given this background, Pike's public comments are at least understandable. Said he: "The man, or set of men, that denies me the right to vote in the State in which I live, is not my political opponent, he is my personal enemy and deadly foe" (Brown 439). And, like Lincoln, Pike did not believe in Black suffrage. Notes Brown: "Pike is believed to have mentioned the Ku Klux Klan once in his editorials for the Appeal. This was April 16, 1868, in reply to an accusation of the editor of the New York Tribune that the southern press had neglected its duty in allowing the Klan's activities to go uncriticized. Pike then left the impression that he neither belonged to the organization nor considered it worthy of his support: 'We do not know what the Ku-Klux organization may become, if it ever becomes anything. It is quite certain that it will never come to much on its original plan. It must become quite another thing to be efficient.' But Pike definately saw possibilities for ex-Confederates in an 'efficient' Klan. " 'The disfranchised people of the South, robbed of the guarantees of the Constitution... can find no protection for property, liberty, or life, except in a secret association. NOT IN SUCH AN ASSOCIATION TO COMMIT FOLLIES AND OUTRAGES; but for mutual, PEACEFUL, LAWFUL, self-defence. If it were in our power, if it could be effected, we would unite every white man in the South, who is OPPOSED TO NEGRO SUFFRAGE, into one great Order of Souther Brotherhood, with an organization complete, active, vigorous, in which a few should execute the concentrated will of all, and whose very existence should be concealed from all but its members. This has been the resort of the oppressed in all ages. To resort to it is a right given by God [if the people were not already] so entirely sunken in the apathy of hopeless despair as not to have energy enough to unite for anything'"(Brown, Pike, 439-440). In 1869 -- a year after Pike's remarks -- Forrest quite properly ordered the Klan to be disbanded, due to a disturbing tendancy towards violence and brutality, both towards Blacks and the "agents" of the Federal government. Within a few years, it was virtually defunct. The Klan was revived on the wave of popularity for the 1915 W.D. Griffith classic, "Birth of a Nation." This film was based on the Thomas Dixon novel, "The Clansman," and glorified and romanticised the group as the "salvation of the South during Reconstruction," which myth was perpetuated by many Confederate groups at the turn of the century. I am aware that others claim for Pike a role in the formation of the Klan, or at least in the creation of its ritual. For example, the current Knights of the Ku Klux Klan website states: "When the Klan was re-organized in 1915, by Col. Simmons in Stone Mountain, Georgia, he patterned the Klan after a fraternity. The early 1900's was a time of fraternities. The nation was seeing prosperous times and many fraternities sprung up around the country. Col. Simmons with the help of Albert Pike who was a great fraternalist, created for the Klan an aura of secrecy, ceremony, etc." Of course, this is clearly impossible, since Albert Pike died in April of 1891. If Col. Simmons recieved any help from Albert Pike in 1915, it came only from the great body of work which Pike left in his passing. So... lots of talking just to say "no, he didn't," but I wished to properly frame Pike's remarks as quoted by Brown. Regards, JSW Subject: Nazi Mormons??? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:15:15 -0400 From: "McGuire, Andy" To: ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man I just checked up on the Radical Mormon site and saw the Nazi Mormon link. Followed it. Just about fell off my chair laughing. The section in there that describes a Nazi Mormon (lives within shouting distance of BYU, etc...) is from an article by Robert Kirby, "The Five Types of Mormons", a wicked and biting piece of humor. It amazes and amuses me that some poor schmuck TOOK IT SERIOUSLY. But Goddess knows -- there's no one like that on THIS mail list. -Andy Subject: Re: green sash Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:36:32 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna References: 1 , 2 Robert R. Blac k wrote: > > Proclus, > > <<. The mind races ahead to the flaxen cord of the BOM >> > > The reference is to a necktie. I thought everyone knew this. Whoa! This is so funny, it has to be true ;-}. Actually, I am lately getting annoyed by the babyonish priesthood uniform (suit and tie). It seems to be about rich clothing, pride, and separating the monied leaders from the lowly foot soldiers. I guess I will have to reread those BOM passages. Sorry, if this is a duplicate message. My connection is acting up this morning. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Truth?? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:16:10 -0600 From: "Michael J. Pierce" To: "'ArtdeHoyos@aol.com'" , jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, black@accex.net, rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org Anti-Masons, anti-Jews, anti-Blacks, anti-Gays, anti-Mormons, anti-F-I-Bs (fill-in-the-blank) are welcome to believe anything they want, and they can always find a convenient scapegoat for the world's problems. However, if their writings become publicly exposed they should logically feel no more anger than the group whose alleged "secret teachings" they are fond of "exposing." There are millions of ideas, millions of perspectives. We really don't know. I have a better idea. I just won't listen to anybody. I have not gone completely anti society yet but it sounds nice. I have been an analyzing person my whole life. I started programming computers in elementray school. And it only got worse since then. It feels good to feel something that is true. It even stirs up pride. And testifies of our spirituality. Really that feeling is usually when a logical analization makes since. 2 + 2 = 4 awwww enlightening that feels good. I have found that you can find hundreds of those little equations and come up with the same answer. And then we start talking about levels. Awww thats even better now all of the equations make sence depending on where your at and when I found out I was wrong, I wasn't really wrong I was just on "a different level". Ok now its all in perspective. Now everything is true for each individual but not true for something else. Crap, well then if thats the case what is true. You just don't know. Truth is perspective. Light is understanding. And I understand that all is crap, and my perspective is my own little created world. (I guess deep down I am a little frustrated that I have come to a conclusion that my clever little ideas are worthless, the only thing it got me was the understanding that there worthless) So all of the different opionons and beliefs.. What if we new that nostradamus was perfectly right? Or we new exactly who the anti christ was for sure? Or we new exactly what was going to happen at the second comming???? The most disappointing thing would be that when we new all of this stuff nothing will have changed. And I will still be me. I will still live day to day. And my relationship with God has not changed. Lose yourself in me and you will find yourself. I will ask the group. What is the chances that what I have explained above is exactly that? "Here is a bunch of BS try to figure it out until you forget who you are..... Then when you are sick of it wake up and realize that you were you before you got lost. We seem to keep trying to be everything, but really we run from ourselves to be nothing." Enough of that. Its time for a confession. I am the anti-christ and am sent to balance out the force. The only thing I can't figure out is how I am going to sleep with the princess that is old enough to be my mother???? Mike ........................................................................ .......... Work from home and make 10 -15 thousand a month. Not MLM! Call now 1-800-345-9688 ex 5223 ........................................................................ ......... > -----Original Message----- > From: ArtdeHoyos@aol.com [SMTP:ArtdeHoyos@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 9:50 PM > To: jswick@cris.com; proclus@mac.com; MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com; > ariel144@hotmail.com; comdb@yahoo.com; kathleen@enol.com; > shirtail@cyberhighway.net; mpierce@switchsoft.com; > onandagus@webtv.net; trent@goodnet.com; rds@acsu.buffalo.edu; > black@accex.net; rpcman@hotmail.com; kshaw@dalsemi.com; > enoch144@eagle-net.org > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Apology] > > Hail fellow Mutants, > > I admire Joe Steve Swick's sincerity in apologizing to Todd, but have > to say > that, considering the crass, dishonest anti-Masonic statements Todd > made > (whether public or private), I think Todd's getting a bargain. > > I used to be surprised that people who seem intelligent continue to > spread > the ridiculous "Lucifer is God" forgery as if it were true (when it > was > exposed as a fraud 100 years ago), but I've come to realize that > gullibility > has nothing to do with intelligence, but rather everything to do with > having > a critical faculty. > > It's almost amusing that some uninformed people fear that we Masons > want to > run the world; the truth is, we can't even agree on what color to > paint our > lodge rooms, or what desert to serve after supper. > > The remarks which follow do NOT refer to Todd, but to anti-Masons in > general. > > Anti-Masons, anti-Jews, anti-Blacks, anti-Gays, anti-Mormons, > anti-F-I-Bs > (fill-in-the-blank) are welcome to believe anything they want, and > they can > always find a convenient scapegoat for the world's problems. However, > if > their writings become publicly exposed they should logically feel no > more > anger than the group whose alleged "secret teachings" they are fond of > > "exposing." > > To me, it seems hypocritical that an anti-Mason is allowed to throw > around > wild accusations and quote supposed "secret teachings," and then cry > "foul" > when his authentic words are exposed. > > Anti-Masons, such a Hitler, Franco and Khomeni have been pleased to > use any > lie necessary to spread their "good news." As for me, I'm content to > stand > with my fellow Masons, including Washington, Franklin, and yes...even > Joseph > Smith. > > > ---Art deHoyos, 320, KCCH, KYCH > "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?" > Find out: -- http://members.aol.com/adehoyos/chap1.htm > ICQ: 8959739 -- AOL Instant Messenger: artdehoyos > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > * Past Master and endowed life member, > McAllen Lodge No. 1110, AF&AM of Texas; > * Past Presiding Officer of all York Rite Bodies > (Hidalgo York Rite Bodies), McAllen, Texas; > * Grand Historian and Grand Archivist, > Supreme Council, 330, Southern Jurisdiction; > * Member of the Resource Team, Ritual Committee, > Supreme Council, 330, Southern Jurisdiction; > * Member of the Board of Directors and life member, > Scottish Rite Research Society; > * Grand Archivist; first recipient, Knight Grand Cross, > Grand College of Rites, USA; > * Ambassador-at-Large, San Antonio, TX, Valley, AASR; > * Class Director, Santa Fe, NM, Valley, AASR; > * Prelate, South Texas Conclave, Corpus Christi, TX, > Red Cross of Constantine and Appendant Orders; > * Societatis Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis; > * Allied Masonic Degrees; > * York Rite College; > * Royal Order of Scotland > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > Subject: Re: Truth?? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:58:41 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna References: 1 Michael J. Pierce wrote: > Its time for a confession. I am the anti-christ and > am sent to balance out the force. The only thing I can't figure out is > how I am going to sleep with the princess that is old enough to be my > mother???? > Mike (proclus takes off his hat to the master of the temple.) Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Re: Truth?? Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:31:52 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: "Michael J. Pierce" , ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, black@accex.net, rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org References: 1 ___Mike___ I am the anti-christ and am sent to balance out the force. The only thing I can't figure out is how I am going to sleep with the princess that is old enough to be my mother???? ----- You are ten and she is twelve. It shouldn't be too difficult. My wife is ...err... quite a few years my senior, and by this July 2nd, I will have been accustomed to her face for some 14 years. JSW Subject: geocities Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:09:42 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man It looks like Geocities/Yahoo is usurping the intellectual property rights of their users. I'm glad that we moved off of Geocities when we did. It's not hard to spot the blackhats of Cyberspace these days, eh? I have to admit, that I was starting to get some very bad vibes from over there. I followed my gut instinct and moved all of the proclus-realm stuff out as well. Here's the story from Wired. http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20472.html Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Re: Contra Black Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 03:43:01 +0000 From: "Robert R. Black" To: Joe Steve Swick III , proclus , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , rpc man References: 1 , 2 So, share. Robert. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Steve Swick III To: proclus ; Andy Mcguire ; ArtdeHoyos ; Beth any ; Dave ; Enoch Shemna ; Kathleen McGuire ; Ken Shaw ; Kerry Shirts ; Michael J. Pierce ; ; R. Trent Reynolds ; Randall Shortridge ; Robert R. Black ; rpc man Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:32 AM Subject: Contra Black > Also, to any of you who have been following my Libertarian defense of > legalized polygamy contra Harry Black on A.R.M., and honest appraisal of the > quality of my argument would be much appreciated. > > I rather think I have right properly "busted him up," but I can always use > either a few strokes or cogent criticism of my > technique/presentation/argument. > > JSW > > > Subject: Re: geocities Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:57:13 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: proclus References: 1 good move Proclus! Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire ; ArtdeHoyos ; Beth any ; Dave ; Enoch Shemna ; Joe Steve Swick III ; Kathleen McGuire ; Ken Shaw ; Kerry Shirts ; Michael J. Pierce ; ; proclus ; R. Trent Reynolds ; Randall Shortridge ; Robert R. Black ; rpc man Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:09 PM Subject: geocities > It looks like Geocities/Yahoo is usurping the intellectual property > rights of their users. I'm glad that we moved off of Geocities when we > did. It's not hard to spot the blackhats of Cyberspace these days, eh? > I have to admit, that I was starting to get some very bad vibes from > over there. I followed my gut instinct and moved all of the > proclus-realm stuff out as well. Here's the story from Wired. > > http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/20472.html > > Regards, > proclus > > -- > Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ > V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- > r+++ y++++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > Subject: Book of the Words Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:39:55 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: proclus , "Robert R. Black" CC: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , rpc man References: 1 , 2 , 3 Bro.'. Art: I just received my bonus copy of Albert Pike's _Sefer HaDebarim_ from the Scottish Rite Research Society -- what a GREAT book. I have a perfectbound copy of the same, published by Kessinger; this SRRS printing is of course far better. Not only is it is easier to read, but the plates and illustrations are far superior. And of course, it has your introduction, which I intend to read this evening. So... how about an authorized reprinting of the LEGENDA? Warmest Regards, JSW More Re: Pike Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:28:53 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: Joe Steve Swick III , proclus , "Robert R. Black" CC: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , rpc man BTW, I just had to mention that I have been re-reading A. E. Waite's almost laughingly harsh criticisms of Pike in his Encyclopedia. After a few soft words towards the recent and dear departed (which must have been obligatory given the stature of Pike among American Freemasons), Waite proceeds to flay Pikes' flesh from his corpse with the skill of one trained in the use of instruments of torture: "No man had a greater opportunity and no one a freer hand when he undertook to revise the Rituals of the Scottish Rite, and he scored only failure. It would be hard and unnecessary to say that he never improved the originals; the case against him is that he reconstructed and did not change. The Rite of Perfection could have been made a perfect Rite, and Ecossais Masonry might have issued from the alembic as a Masonry of the living God; but [Pike] lacked the spirit and the fire, the informing fire and the shaping spirut: the result is therefore that he has bequeathed us Pike's revision" (Encyclopaedia, 2.278). Well. Let's just say that Good Arthur had his share of failure with revised ritual himself, eh. Of course, some of Waite's observations are quite on the mark. His criticism of Morals and Dogma (and its unattributed use of Eliphas Levi) was quite good, and I had to smile when I read his comments regarding the Prince of Libanus: "Under the auspices of Albert Pike, [the candidate] is instructed also in the nobility of work... and if he seems to have heard it before, he has the satisfaction at least that on this occasion the instruction occupies so many pages that the famous Grand Commandeer forgets to provide an accolade for his new Knight...as he forgets also to tell him why it is Royal. Assuredly Albert Pike was the "Conversation Kenge" of Masonry" (Ibid., 2.302-3) Zing! It is nice to know that I am not the only one who thinks that occasionally Pike is a bit tendentious and pedantic. Of course, he also claims that Pike "manages to obscure" the meaning of some ritual by "reducing the Christian elements after his invariable manner" (Ibid, 1.442) Perhaps true. I am quite interested to see how the rituals will look after the current revisions are completed. SVAT, Brother, JSW Subject: Contra Black Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:32:54 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: proclus , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man References: 1 Also, to any of you who have been following my Libertarian defense of legalized polygamy contra Harry Black on A.R.M., and honest appraisal of the quality of my argument would be much appreciated. I rather think I have right properly "busted him up," but I can always use either a few strokes or cogent criticism of my technique/presentation/argument. JSW Subject: Re: Book of the Words Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:33:14 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: Joe Steve Swick III , proclus , "Robert R. Black" CC: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , rpc man References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Steve Swick III To: proclus ; Robert R. Black Cc: Andy Mcguire ; ArtdeHoyos ; Beth any ; Dave ; Enoch Shemna ; Kathleen McGuire ; Ken Shaw ; Kerry Shirts ; Michael J. Pierce ; ; R. Trent Reynolds ; Randall Shortridge ; rpc man Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:39 PM Subject: Book of the Words > Bro.'. Art: > > I just received my bonus copy of Albert Pike's _Sefer HaDebarim_ from the > Scottish Rite Research Society -- what a GREAT book. I have a perfectbound > copy of the same, published by Kessinger; this SRRS printing is of course > far better. Not only is it is easier to read, but the plates and > illustrations are far superior. And of course, it has your introduction, > which I intend to read this evening. > > So... how about an authorized reprinting of the LEGENDA? > > Warmest Regards, > JSW News for you my friends......I'll be attending a Masonic dinner tomorrow night. I was invited by the Grand Master of the Lodge here. I am going up for voting here pretty quick as to whether they will accept me in or not...... Kerry A. Shirts > > Re: Book of the Words Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:26:44 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: Kerry Shirts , proclus , "Robert R. Black" CC: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , rpc man References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 ___KAS___ News for you my friends......I'll be attending a Masonic dinner tomorrow night. I was invited by the Grand Master of the Lodge here. I am going up for voting here pretty quick as to whether they will accept me in or not...... ----- Well... I'm quite surprised but also quite happy to hear this, Kerry. Best wishes -- and good luck. Don't forget to keep us posted as things develop. Regards, JSW "The secret of Israel's survival is that it has gone its own way, regardless of what other nations might think or say in praise or scorn." Re: Book of the Words Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:39:33 -0400 (EDT) From: ArtdeHoyos@aol.com To: jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, black@accex.net CC: MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, kathleen@enol.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com Bro.'. Joe, In a message dated 6/29/99 11:44:44 PM Central Daylight Time, jswick@cris.com writes: > I just received my bonus copy of Albert Pike's _Sefer HaDebarim_ from the > Scottish Rite Research Society -- what a GREAT book. I have a perfectbound > copy of the same, published by Kessinger; this SRRS printing is of course > far better. Not only is it is easier to read, but the plates and > illustrations are far superior. And of course, it has your introduction, > which I intend to read this evening. Glad to know that you're enjoying it. > So... how about an authorized reprinting of the LEGENDA? Did you know that hardbound copies of the LEGENDA and READINGS are still available for sale from the Supreme Council? They are also very *inexpensive*! The Scottish Rite Research Society is preparing a "bonus" book for the Scottish Rite's bicentennial in 2001. The book with include, in parallel columns, the Francken, Jamaica, and Dalcho and rituals, and supplementary matter. I've already typed about 600 manuscript pages for this book. Somewhat down the road we're also going to print (in hardback) Pike's two books of "Lectures on Masonic Symbolism" and his never-before-published "Symbolism of the Blue Degrees of Freemasonry." In a message dated 6/30/99 12:35:09 AM Central Daylight Time, shirtail@cyberhighway.net writes: > News for you my friends......I'll be attending a Masonic dinner tomorrow > night. I was invited by the Grand Master of the Lodge here. I am going up > for voting here pretty quick as to whether they will accept me in or > not...... > Kerry, congrats! And do keep us informed. Best regards, ---AdH.'. Subject: Re: Book of the Words Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:30:52 -0700 From: Joe Steve Swick III To: ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, proclus@mac.com, black@accex.net CC: MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, kathleen@enol.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, rpcman@hotmail.com References: 1 ___JSW___ So... how about an authorized reprinting of the LEGENDA? ____AdH___ Did you know that hardbound copies of the LEGENDA and READINGS are still available for sale from the Supreme Council? They are also very *inexpensive*! ----- No, actually I didn't know this. I actually have a copy of their book list (and just went and looked at their online list) and didn't see them there. If I had known the LEGENDA and READINGS were available from the Supreme Council, I surely would have purchased them. In fact, I have just called and placed an order. The whole set of these HB editions were about the same price as my goobered-up paper edition. Thanks, Art. You have improved my library -- which of course makes you a treasured friend! ___AdH___ The Scottish Rite Research Society is preparing a "bonus" book for the Scottish Rite's bicentennial in 2001. The book with include, in parallel columns, the Francken, Jamaica, and Dalcho and rituals, and supplementary matter. I've already typed about 600 manuscript pages for this book. ------ Most excellent. Almost daily, I envy your job. ___AdH___ Somewhat down the road we're also going to print (in hardback) Pike's two books of "Lectures on Masonic Symbolism" and his never-before-published "Symbolism of the Blue Degrees of Freemasonry." ----- Yes, I have a copy of the former (again, the Kessinger perfectbound copies), but not of the latter. Parts of this are excellent, but my copy is rather hard to read, and to be quite frank, while there was much interesting material here (the man was incredibly eclectic) Pike was nevertheless a little heavy on the Agni, Ushas, and Mitra for my personal liking. I would love to have some discussion with you about this. For reasons you can of course appreciate, I am very curious to see whether this particular focus -- a unique contribution of Pike and one of the unifying concepts in his reworking of the degrees-- continues to be represented in the SR rituals. I do have the Book of the Lodge with Pike's workings for the first three Degrees, which are quite enjoyable. His commentary on the symbolism would be a very welcome addition to my library. Regards, JSW "Every word hides in itself a profound meaning. Every legend contains more than the event it seems to recite. This Holy and Profound Doctrine is the true Doctrine" (Zohar III, as quoted, Albert Pike, Second Lecture on Symbolism). Subject: mahonri Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 01:07:36 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna FYI, Here is a little news from mahonri's website. The System Administrator has informed me that the Troubador site will be shortly going down. In anticipation of this eventuality we have moved Messenger (Truth Seeker) magazine. Please click on the following link to go to its new home http://www.bigfoot.com/~mahonri and ensure that your web browser's bookmarks are updated accordingly -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:05:41 -0400 From: "McGuire, Andy" To: Kerry Shirts , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , "'proclus'" CC: "Greg Preston (E-mail)" Fellow Mutants, It is with mixed emotions that I inform you that my wife Kathleen and I have requested to have our names removed from the membership rolls of the LDS church. We have been contemplating this action for some time. The recent anti-gay political activities of the church made us realize that the time had come to get off the pot and -finally- take action. For those of you who don't know, I am bisexual and Kathleen is lesbian. We can no longer allow ourselves to be even a nominal part of an organization that preaches a subtle and implicit gospel of hate against us. Thanks for listening, Andy McGuire Subject: Re: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:18:34 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna References: 1 Heyers Andy. What a long strange trip, no. I take it that you are still a mutantRM, no? Best Wishes, old friend. Regards, proclus McGuire, Andy wrote: > > Fellow Mutants, > > It is with mixed emotions that I inform you that my wife Kathleen and I have > requested to have our names removed from the membership rolls of the LDS > church. We have been contemplating this action for some time. The recent > anti-gay political activities of the church made us realize that the time > had come to get off the pot and -finally- take action. For those of you who > don't know, I am bisexual and Kathleen is lesbian. We can no longer allow > ourselves to be even a nominal part of an organization that preaches a > subtle and implicit gospel of hate against us. > > Thanks for listening, > Andy McGuire -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Re: jack sarfatti Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:06:05 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna References: 1 Ooops, HERE's the link ;-}. http://www.stardrive.org/title.shtml proclus wrote: > > It's been a little quiet, so I thought that I'd stir the pot a little. > Here's the link to Jack Sarfatti's website (I checked. He is the > billing contact.). There is some great and reliable info for the UFO > theorists among you. > > Regards, > proclus > > -- > Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ > V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- > r+++ y++++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Re: jack sarfatti Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:22:02 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: proclus , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna References: 1 , 2 > Ooops, HERE's the link ;-}. > > http://www.stardrive.org/title.shtml > > > proclus wrote: > > > > It's been a little quiet, so I thought that I'd stir the pot a little. > > Here's the link to Jack Sarfatti's website (I checked. He is the > > billing contact.). There is some great and reliable info for the UFO > > theorists among you. > > > > Regards, > > proclus Proclus.....for crying out loud, can't you think of anything else to get us stimulated? GRIN! Kerry A. "Obnoxious tonight as I am overtired from destroying Charles Larson's contentions in his book against the Book of Abraham (By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus) over on the FAIR Roundtable message boards" Shirts Subject: mutant bundle Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:06:51 -0400 From: proclus To: proclus Subject: Re: BoM stuff Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:20:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Beth Quick To: kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu I used to wonder if the 3 Nephites would be considered Bhodisatva's. Angels, huh? Wow. Thanks for the cross cultural explanation, as always, you Gnostic genius ! Beth >From: kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw) >To: kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com >CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, >trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, >shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, >comdb@yahoo.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, timquick@cwnet.com, >ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, >rds@acsu.buffalo.edu >Subject: BoM stuff >Date: Mon, 17 May 99 14:29:04 CDT > >Howdy! > >As much as people rail against "The Book 0f Mormon", the fact is that >it exists and is an astonishing phenomona. The BoM cannot be explained >away. > >I've been trying to understand what exactly happened to Joseph Smith for >25 years, and the only other place I've found anything like it is the >Tibetan Buddhist tradition of "Termas". A "Terma" is a scripture that >was hidden by a Buddhist Yogi in the past, to come forth in a time when >the info could be of benefit. The finders of "Termas" are called "Tertons" >who are Buddhist holy men. "Tertons" lead by dreams and visions to a place >where >the ground or rocks miraculously open up to their prayers and spells to >yield >up texts written in an unknow script called "dakini script". Only the >"Terton" >has the yogic power to decipher the text, but some others are allowed to >view the >text. > >All this leads me to see a connection between appearance of YaHuWeH on >Sinai, >the "pillar of fire" that followed the camp of Israel, the conception of >Jesus, >and "First Vision" of Joseph Smith with the so called "UFO" phenomona and >the >ancient Buddhist theory of "Bodhisatvas". "Bodhisatvas" are people who >followed >the Yogic path of salation to the point of "Full Awakening", only to stop >short >in order to continue to labor in this realm of reality in order to try to >teach >and help all us poor jokers left back here in this nightmare world. The >"Bodhisatva" >is the origin of concept of "Angels" in the ancient world. > >Kenneth Shaw > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Subject: Re: BoM stuff Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:24:51 -0500 From: Rumi007 Organization: Microsoft Corporation To: Beth Quick , kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu References: 1 Beh, Boy am I glad to hear from you! I was getting very worried about how you were doing. Thanks for the kind words. More later. Ken Shaw ----- Original Message ----- From: Beth Quick To: ; <74277.3365@compuserve.com>; Cc: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 5:20 PM Subject: Re: BoM stuff > I used to wonder if the 3 Nephites would be considered Bhodisatva's. > Angels, huh? Wow. Thanks for the cross cultural explanation, as always, you > Gnostic genius ! > > Beth > > > >From: kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw) > >To: kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com > >CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, > >trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, > >shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, > >comdb@yahoo.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, timquick@cwnet.com, > >ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, > >rds@acsu.buffalo.edu > >Subject: BoM stuff > >Date: Mon, 17 May 99 14:29:04 CDT > > > >Howdy! > > > >As much as people rail against "The Book 0f Mormon", the fact is that > >it exists and is an astonishing phenomona. The BoM cannot be explained > >away. > > > >I've been trying to understand what exactly happened to Joseph Smith for > >25 years, and the only other place I've found anything like it is the > >Tibetan Buddhist tradition of "Termas". A "Terma" is a scripture that > >was hidden by a Buddhist Yogi in the past, to come forth in a time when > >the info could be of benefit. The finders of "Termas" are called "Tertons" > >who are Buddhist holy men. "Tertons" lead by dreams and visions to a place > >where > >the ground or rocks miraculously open up to their prayers and spells to > >yield > >up texts written in an unknow script called "dakini script". Only the > >"Terton" > >has the yogic power to decipher the text, but some others are allowed to > >view the > >text. > > > >All this leads me to see a connection between appearance of YaHuWeH on > >Sinai, > >the "pillar of fire" that followed the camp of Israel, the conception of > >Jesus, > >and "First Vision" of Joseph Smith with the so called "UFO" phenomona and > >the > >ancient Buddhist theory of "Bodhisatvas". "Bodhisatvas" are people who > >followed > >the Yogic path of salation to the point of "Full Awakening", only to stop > >short > >in order to continue to labor in this realm of reality in order to try to > >teach > >and help all us poor jokers left back here in this nightmare world. The > >"Bodhisatva" > >is the origin of concept of "Angels" in the ancient world. > > > >Kenneth Shaw > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > Subject: [Fwd: Recommend] Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:13:18 -0400 From: proclus To: proclus Subject: Re: Recommend Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:36:06 -0600 From: Kathleen To: rds@acsu.buffalo.edu CC: "Michael J. Pierce" , 'Rumi007' , Beth Quick , kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com, proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com References: 1 , 2 Randall Shortridge wrote: > > An interesting question to explore is about who owns the recommend? > One news story I saw claimed that temple recommends carry a statement that it remains the property of the church and must be surrendered upon demand. Since I haven't had a valid recommend in years, I can't confirm that, but it would make sense. My library card says the same thing. As well as membership cards to local bars. Standard practice around here. Kathleen Subject: Recommend Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:25:50 -0600 From: "Michael J. Pierce" To: 'Rumi007' , Beth Quick , kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com, proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu http://www.sltrib.com/1999/jul/07281999/nation_w/11124.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ <<11124.htm>> 11124.htm Name: 11124.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Recommend Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:45:40 -0400 From: Randall Shortridge Organization: State University of New York To: "Michael J. Pierce" CC: 'Rumi007' , Beth Quick , kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com, proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com References: 1 Yeah, I saw this a few days ago from a different source. I guess what bothers me is what public pressure can do to an otherwise legitimate and legal transaction. LDS are pretty good at exerting pressure (do it by force) and think that it is a valid activity. It is the way of this world. An interesting question to explore is about who owns the recommend? Also, it may not have stopped anything, since there are other venues in which to sell said item. Probably someone has already contacted the person privately about buying it. Randall "Michael J. Pierce" wrote: > > http://www.sltrib.com/1999/jul/07281999/nation_w/11124.htm > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > <<11124.htm>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: 11124.htm > 11124.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Recommend Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:15:16 -0400 From: Randall Shortridge Organization: State University of New York To: Kathleen CC: "Michael J. Pierce" , 'Rumi007' , Beth Quick , kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com, proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com References: 1 , 2 , 3 Kathleen, I think you are right. Lots of lawyers among the LDS. They certainly would not give up ownership. Not done in these circles. Got to read the fine print. I think it is the same with membership records. Who owns them? It is clear that the church (corporation) does and that is why you must 'request' to have them removed. If you 'owned' them, so to speak, then there would not have to be a request. So, one cannot really say that "... my membership records are in the church". In reality, none is yours. All is theirs. All tidied up nice and pretty. Well, I wouldn't call it 'pretty'. ;-) Randall Kathleen wrote: > > Randall Shortridge wrote: > > > > > An interesting question to explore is about who owns the recommend? > > > > One news story I saw claimed that temple recommends carry a statement that > it remains the property of the church and must be surrendered upon demand. > Since I haven't had a valid recommend in years, I can't confirm that, but it > would make sense. My library card says the same thing. As well as membership > cards to local bars. Standard practice around here. > > Kathleen Subject: RE: Recommend Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:06:08 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: "rds@acsu.buffalo.edu" , "'Kathleen'" CC: "Michael J. Pierce" , "'Rumi007'" , Beth Quick , "kshaw@dalsemi.com" , "74277.3365@compuserve.com" <74277.3365@compuserve.com>, "Student007@msn.com" , "proclus@mac.com" , "enoch144@eagle-net.org" , "rpcman@hotmail.com" , "trent@goodnet.com" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , "shirtail@cyberhighway.net" , "jswick@cris.com" , "comdb@yahoo.com" , "timquick@cwnet.com" , "ArtdeHoyos@aol.com" , "MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com" , "tudent007@msn.com" ok,ok McGuires.....I ADMIT IT.....I was in SLC the other day, and came down to Provo to see you guys, and I couldn't find you....One more time please, what is your address and phone Number? Send it private email if you like......THANKS! Kerry A. "Finishing my scrollsaw art book and I'll be down again this week" Shirts Subject: RE: Recommend Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:11:48 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: "Michael J. Pierce" , "'rds@acsu.buffalo.edu'" CC: "'Rumi007'" , Beth Quick , "kshaw@dalsemi.com" , "74277.3365@compuserve.com" <74277.3365@compuserve.com>, "Student007@msn.com" , "proclus@mac.com" , "enoch144@eagle-net.org" , "rpcman@hotmail.com" , "trent@goodnet.com" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , "shirtail@cyberhighway.net" , "kathleen@enol.com" , "jswick@cris.com" , "comdb@yahoo.com" , "timquick@cwnet.com" , "ArtdeHoyos@aol.com" , "MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com" , "tudent007@msn.com" ---------- From: Randall Shortridge[SMTP:rds@acsu.buffalo.edu] Reply To: rds@acsu.buffalo.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 11:45 AM To: Michael J. Pierce Cc: 'Rumi007'; Beth Quick; kshaw@dalsemi.com; 74277.3365@compuserve.com; Student007@msn.com; proclus@mac.com; enoch144@eagle-net.org; rpcman@hotmail.com; trent@goodnet.com; onandagus@webtv.net; shirtail@cyberhighway.net; kathleen@enol.com; jswick@cris.com; comdb@yahoo.com; timquick@cwnet.com; ArtdeHoyos@aol.com; MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com; tudent007@msn.com Subject: Re: Recommend Yeah, I saw this a few days ago from a different source. I guess what bothers me is what public pressure can do to an otherwise legitimate and legal transaction. LDS are pretty good at exerting pressure (do it by force) and think that it is a valid activity. It is the way of this world. An interesting question to explore is about who owns the recommend? The church. It was not public pressure, but the fact that ebay realized the church owned the property, not the individual dumbly trying to sell it. Kerry A. "How deep does dumb go with some people?" Shirts Subject: Re: BoM stuff Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:57:13 -0500 From: Rumi007 Organization: Microsoft Corporation To: shirtail@cyberhighway.net, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com, "'Beth Quick'" CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu References: 1 Keryy and All, Since I'm finally coming out of the closet as a confirmed Buddhist/Sufi, I can say that all real "scripture" is an attempt to tell stories that are metaphors for psychological and "metaphysical" processes and events. That is why all "fundamentalisms" are so harmful, they read the metaphors as actual concrete events in the outer world. This misreading of the text causes mental illness as well as discrediting "religion" altogether. I'm all for this project of yours. Lets get started. Ken Shaw > Kerry: > Hey you guys n gals.....did you happen to see the latest article in the > Journal of Book of Mormon Studies concerning the "Mythic dimension" of and > in the BofM?! I figured this out over a decade ago and never did much with > it. The write up is not as complete as I would have done it, but the guy is > on the right track.....I was very interested and very glad to see someone > else finally step up and say wait a sec.....there ***IS*** a mythical > dimension to the BofM, not in the sense of something being phony, (a misuse > of the word myth), but in the sense of being ahistorical, that is > psychological.....I rather liked the idea. He tentatively explored Nephi as > a hero-type in the fashion of Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With A Thousand > Faces." Shall we put some heads together here and explore this in greater > depth and publish, say in Dialogue or something? It appears that some are > waking up to the fact that the BOfM can be seen in a mythical dimension > (again, NOT a phony one, a MYTHICAL one) as well as an historical one. As > much as I love history and all that jazz, this also whets my > appetite....... > > Kerry A. Shirts > > > >From: kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw) > >To: kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com > >CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, > >trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, > >shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, > >comdb@yahoo.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, timquick@cwnet.com, > >ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, > >rds@acsu.buffalo.edu > >Subject: BoM stuff > >Date: Mon, 17 May 99 14:29:04 CDT > > > >Howdy! > > > >As much as people rail against "The Book 0f Mormon", the fact is that > >it exists and is an astonishing phenomona. The BoM cannot be explained > >away. > > > >I've been trying to understand what exactly happened to Joseph Smith for > >25 years, and the only other place I've found anything like it is the > >Tibetan Buddhist tradition of "Termas". A "Terma" is a scripture that > >was hidden by a Buddhist Yogi in the past, to come forth in a time when > >the info could be of benefit. The finders of "Termas" are called > "Tertons" > >who are Buddhist holy men. "Tertons" lead by dreams and visions to a place > >where > >the ground or rocks miraculously open up to their prayers and spells to > >yield > >up texts written in an unknow script called "dakini script". Only the > >"Terton" > >has the yogic power to decipher the text, but some others are allowed to > >view the > >text. > > > >All this leads me to see a connection between appearance of YaHuWeH on > >Sinai, > >the "pillar of fire" that followed the camp of Israel, the conception of > >Jesus, > >and "First Vision" of Joseph Smith with the so called "UFO" phenomona and > >the > >ancient Buddhist theory of "Bodhisatvas". "Bodhisatvas" are people who > >followed > >the Yogic path of salation to the point of "Full Awakening", only to stop > >short > >in order to continue to labor in this realm of reality in order to try to > >teach > >and help all us poor jokers left back here in this nightmare world. The > >"Bodhisatva" > >is the origin of concept of "Angels" in the ancient world. > > > >Kenneth Shaw > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > Subject: FYI-Colin Wilson and Sufism Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 07:42:57 -0500 From: Rumi007 Organization: Microsoft Corporation To: shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Student007@msn.com, "'Beth Quick'" CC: proclus@mac.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, rpcman@hotmail.com, trent@goodnet.com, onandagus@webtv.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, kathleen@enol.com, jswick@cris.com, comdb@yahoo.com, timquick@cwnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, tudent007@msn.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu References: 1 >From another list---- On November 28, 1997, Jim Parker (jimp@eurekanet.com) wrote: You may or not be aware that Colin Wilson was most probably a Sufi student of Idries Shah, who in print and on tape has mentioned Wilson in respects to this. He was probably first introduced to Shah thru his work "The Sufis" published in the mid 60's. Interestingly, Shah passed away one year ago this week. The reference to Wilson by Shah that first comes to mind is on a tape put out by the ISHK Book Service (they can be reached at www.sufis.org). It is one tape in a series called "An Advanced Psychology" and if memory serves me, Shah mentions Wilson as an example of a "Westener" who is said to have had Sufi contacts--or something close. I will try to find the exact reference and let you know the title of the tape (there are about 20 audio tapes total, several of them by Shah and these were made about 12-15 years ago). I do recall that it was a lecture given in the U.S. that the reference was made. Sorry that this is fairly dis-jointed, however, one small interesting note is that the book "The People of the Secret" by Ernst Scott, which is carried by ISHK has an introduction by Colin Wilson. Don't know if any of this is helpful.... Subject: [Fwd: Card's new novel] Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 21:23:14 -0400 From: proclus To: proclus@mac.com Subject: Card's new novel Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 18:42:41 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man Just in case you haven't heard, there is a new one coming out, Ender's Shadow. It is a sequel to Ender's Game. The story is retold from the perspective of Bean. Here's a link. http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/shadow.shtml I know there are some Ender's fans out there, so hopefully this is not too far off topic ;-}. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: RE: Card's new novel Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 21:01:22 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Enoch Shemna , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , "'proclus'" ---------- From: proclus[SMTP:proclus@mac.com] Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 4:42 PM To: Andy Mcguire; ArtdeHoyos; Beth any; Dave; Enoch Shemna; Joe Steve Swick III; Kathleen McGuire; Ken Shaw; Kerry Shirts; Michael J. Pierce; onandagus@webtv.net; proclus; R. Trent Reynolds; Randall Shortridge; Robert R. Black; rpc man Subject: Card's new novel Just in case you haven't heard, there is a new one coming out, Ender's Shadow. It is a sequel to Ender's Game. The story is retold from the perspective of Bean. Here's a link. http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/shadow.shtml I know there are some Ender's fans out there, so hopefully this is not too far off topic ;-}. Regards, proclus Kerry: THANKS Proclus! I am just now finally after all these years just starting to read Enders Game...... Kerry A. "Way behind in the fiction area, but enjoying what I'm getting into" Shirts Subject: Tonight's Sufi class Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:22:11 -0500 From: Rumi007 Organization: Microsoft Corporation To: Ken Shaw , "'Beth Quick'" , Student007@msn.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net CC: rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, tudent007@msn.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, timquick@cwnet.com, comdb@yahoo.com, jswick@cris.com, kathleen@enol.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rpcman@hotmail.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, proclus@mac.com References: 1 August 5, 1999 Dallas, Texas Tonight one of the class asked Mr. Madaani how the Muslims in the school were to approach daily prayer, whether to carry out the standard formal prayers of Islam (Salat) as well as the special practices of the Path, or, rather,to set aside the outer formalities of religion and focus soley on study, service and breathing practice. Mr. Madaani said that before anything can be discussed there has to be definitions arrived at. He asked "what is eating"?. After some discussion we arrived at "absorbing other beings into ourselves to maintain our own existence". Then he asked "so what is prayer"?. Asking God for aid was our answer. He asked "what is God"? Then we all fell silent. He then launched into a Spirit filled discourse that is still ringing in my body. This is the thumbnail sketch: We eat in response to a need that appears in the body. That need motivates an action to try to fill that need. That action could be to declair the need for food, hoping that someone external to ourselves will respond by giving us food, or it could be to get up and try to find food in our environment. Hunger is a sign of health. Eating is a way of maintaining health. Prayer is like eating, or drinking or breathing. It is an action that springs out of a need that appears inside of us. Just as physical hunger is a sign of health in the body, the hunger to pray is a sign of health in the "I" centered near the physical heart. If the thirst is in us we will claw our way to the water no matter what, but if the thirst isn't there, there's nothing that can be done. "God" is none other than "Existence As Such", there is no place or no thing that isn't "God". The only way we can make contact with "Existence As Such" is through the medium of our our bodies, that is by tearing away the veils of our own mental imagery and actually cognizing the sensations of our own flesh in this very moment. This is why Breathing Practice is the first step in true prayer. Focusing of the sensations of breath and air brings us back to ourselves in stages, as well as charging us with a subtle energy that cleanses all five of our "bodies" of the negative and parasitic energies that infect us. When we reach the stage of concentration where we lose all "self-awareness", that is, the only thing we are aware of is the sensation of breath and have no awareness at all of ourselves sitting there doing the breathing, then "God" is present. When "God" is present, all kinds of things start happening. But it's not "God" or "Angels" from outer space who are making things happen, it's "You" who are making things happen, it's just not the "you" who "you" think you are. ________________________________________ Kenneth Shaw Subject: [Fwd: pagan poll] Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 13:38:20 -0400 From: proclus To: proclus Subject: RE: pagan poll Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:40:41 -0600 From: Kerry Shirts To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna , "'proclus'" Wow! 38% think we are pagans? That IS interesting.........a Mormon pagan eh? Gee what an oxymormonism that one is......GRIN! Kerry ---------- From: proclus[SMTP:proclus@mac.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 7:37 AM To: Andy Mcguire; ArtdeHoyos; Beth any; Dave; Joe Steve Swick III; Kathleen McGuire; Kerry Shirts; Michael J. Pierce; onandagus@webtv.net; proclus; R. Trent Reynolds; Randall Shortridge; Robert R. Black; rpc man; Ken Shaw; Enoch Shemna Subject: pagan poll For the curious, there have been some interesting votes in the pagan poll recently. Here's a link for ya'. http://arsdigita.com/voxpopuli/ViewResults?poll_id=531&poll_question_id=490 Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: absalom.com is going away Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 21:48:17 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna FYI, http://www.absalom.com is going away. You might want to go over there and wish Friar Joseph well. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to make a mirror of the site and link it from mutantRM's or Radical. Any thoughts on this? I already have the archive. It is just a matter of putting it up. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: RE: absalom.com is going away Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 21:55:26 -0400 From: Enoch Shemna To: proclus , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw I have written to Joseph- I would be glad to host his sites for him- although I am not sure what is exactly going on since he is hosting two of my sites! EnochGraphics.com and LightofChrist.net- although I can probably host them on my server eventually just will need to save up some money or get donations but I could even host absalom.com -----Original Message----- From: proclus@ficino.penguinpowered.com [mailto:proclus@ficino.penguinpowered.com]On Behalf Of proclus Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 9:48 PM To: Andy Mcguire; ArtdeHoyos; Beth any; Dave; Joe Steve Swick III; Kathleen McGuire; Kerry Shirts; Michael J. Pierce; onandagus@webtv.net; proclus; R. Trent Reynolds; Randall Shortridge; Robert R. Black; rpc man; Ken Shaw; Enoch Shemna Subject: absalom.com is going away FYI, http://www.absalom.com is going away. You might want to go over there and wish Friar Joseph well. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to make a mirror of the site and link it from mutantRM's or Radical. Any thoughts on this? I already have the archive. It is just a matter of putting it up. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Re: absalom.com is going away Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 22:09:10 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna References: 1 Here is a better link for entry to the going away parts ;-}. http://www.absalom.com/mormon/ Regards, proclus proclus wrote: > > FYI, http://www.absalom.com is going away. You might want to go over > there and wish Friar Joseph well. I was thinking that it would be a > good idea to make a mirror of the site and link it from mutantRM's or > Radical. Any thoughts on this? I already have the archive. It is just > a matter of putting it up. > > Regards, > proclus > > -- > Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ > V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- > r+++ y++++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: Tonight's Khaneghah session Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 01:15:03 -0500 From: Rumi007 Organization: Microsoft Corporation To: Rumi007 , Ken Shaw , "'Beth Quick'" , Student007@msn.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net CC: rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, timquick@cwnet.com, comdb@yahoo.com, jswick@cris.com, kathleen@enol.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net, mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com, rpcman@hotmail.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org, proclus@mac.com References: 1 , 2 August 6, 1999 Dallas, Texas "Khaneghah" is the Persian word for a training facility for dervishes, often translated as "Lodge" in the sense of a fraternal order. The Khaneghah here in Dallas is in an office park in the midst of the mini "Silicon Valley" hight tech corridor of Addison. >From the outside the only sign of its presence is a modest nameplate reading "MTO Shahmaghsoudi". Once inside however you find yourself in a setting as exotic as old Iran. Thick Persian carpets greet you in the first room for shelving shoes and hanging up coats. The next room is slightly larger and holds a display of books in Persian as well as examples of classical Islamic art. The main room is about sixty feet square with carefuly plastered walls that round out all of the inside corners so that everything has a kind of "adobe" feeling. The walls are covered with rich Arabic caligraphy of Koranic verses, and the floor is covered with thick powder blue carpet. At the east end of the room the wall is cut in to create a kind of shallow "nitche" that the throne is set in . The throne is basicly a dias surrounded with fresh flower displays with huge pillows all covered with Persian carpets, and a long "runner" carpet extending out into the room dividing the room in half. Women sit on the left and men on right facing front. When the Pir is present he sits on the throne to give instruction, but normaly our kind and patient instructors Mr. Sabourie or Mr. Madaani sit on the floor to the side to lead the session. Friday sessions start with formal prayer in Arabic and the recitation of the Koran, followed by a reading from one of the Pir's books. This is followed by a short session of Zekr (Chanting-Remebrance of God) to get us all tuned in together. This is followed by an extemporanious talk given by the instructor on whatever subject he perceives that will be helpful to us. The session ends when all the lights are turned out and Zekr starts for serious, sometimes being four or five differents chants and going on for an hour. Zekr kind of like a "campfire song" only it's special "Names of God" in Arabic and Persian that are sung with great intensity matched to certain body motions and deep breathing. Afterwards tea and sweets are served so that people can normalize their counciousness enough to safely drive home. Tonight Mr. Madaani spoke on the history of existence in this cycle. He said that before the "big bang" all existence was "One", what modern physics calls "Singularity". In the Koran God states "I was a hidden treasure and desired to be known". After the "big bang" that "One" began to form out of itself "slower" parts that became "force", and then from "force" slowed down to become "wave" and from "wave" to become "particle". Particles formed all the rest of material manifestation. But every particle is none other than that "One" that is the origin of all, and is, in itself, the "Absolute". The "One" started a process that ended up creating organic life for one express pupose, to form the "Human Being". The Human Being is the organism that can fully manifest the conscousness of the "Absolute One" within time and space. God created the universe and evolved Man just so "He" could look at "Himself". There is more to it than that, but that's even harder to understand. Rumi said: For millions and millions of years I lived as minerals, Then I died as mineral and became plants. For millions and millions of years I lived as plants, Then I died as plants and became animals. For millions and millions of years I lived as animals, Then I died as animals and became a Human Being. What have I ever lost by my dieing? I will die to this human form and become something beyond imagining. We are only "Human Beings" in potential, most people are still pure animal. When we reach the state of "Human Being" we are given the name "Adam" which means "Man". The whole goal of this life is to complete ourselves and become "Adams" and "Eves". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- Kenneth Shaw Subject: RE: absalom.com is going away Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 10:32:50 -0600 From: "Michael J. Pierce" To: "'proclus'" , Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna Either that or download his zipped file of all the stuff make downloadable on your site??? FYI, http://www.absalom.com is going away. You might want to go over there and wish Friar Joseph well. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to make a mirror of the site and link it from mutantRM's or Radical. Any thoughts on this? I already have the archive. It is just a matter of putting it up. Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Subject: pagan poll Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:37:59 -0400 From: proclus To: Andy Mcguire , ArtdeHoyos , Beth any , Dave , Joe Steve Swick III , Kathleen McGuire , Kerry Shirts , "Michael J. Pierce" , "onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds" , Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black" , rpc man , Ken Shaw , Enoch Shemna For the curious, there have been some interesting votes in the pagan poll recently. Here's a link for ya'. http://arsdigita.com/voxpopuli/ViewResults?poll_id=531&poll_question_id=490 Regards, proclus -- Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

If you want to join the discussion, just click here..
Back up to Mutant's Home

More discussion here!

Visit

Michael L. Love/proclus/GNU-Darwin link block

Related social networking sites that might be lesser known

Make your own free website on Tripod.com