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Subject:
Re: [Fwd: our jam]
Date:
Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:46:30 -0800
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
Michael Love , Pat Brown ,
Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , Beth any ,
rpc man , Gaia ,
onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
Dave , "Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Ken Shaw , Steven Pirie-Shepherd
No need to drop acid anymore.... my optic nerve endings are blastin'
JSW
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Love
To: Pat Brown Andy Mcguire
Kathleen McGuire R. Trent Reynolds
Joe Steve Swick III ArtdeHoyos
Randall Shortridge Beth any
proclus rpc man Gaia
onandagus@webtv.net
Neoptolmus@aol.com Dave Robert R.
Black ?.3365@compuserve.com> Ken Shaw Steven
Pirie-Shepherd
Date: Monday, February 23, 1998 11:50 AM
Subject: [Fwd: our jam]
>Keep this to yourselves for now, folks...
>
>ResRocket secret transmission...
>
>from proclus....
>
>loading...............
Subject:
Hebrew restored Book of Commandments
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:23:26 -0500 (EST)
From:
Theurgus
To:
rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, proclus@mac.com, Sefirot1@aol.com,
CYeshua@aol.com, KenShaw007@aol.com
CC:
rm-l@troubador.com, yoda_obi@juno.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, gaia@nmol.com,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, dcombe@rain.org, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com
Hail Mutants!
I had a really energising talk with Don Bradley the other night,
and it made me realize that there are things I aught to be doing.
One of those things is going back to the foundational documents
of the restoration, looking at them again, as if for the first time, and
trying to extract their essential meaning from the standpoint of all
the research I've done so far in "Christian Origins". I'm starting with
the original Book of Commandments published by the Church of
Christ (Temple Lot) because I've never understood why Joseph turned
the verbatum revelations over to a faceless committee to be mutilated
into the form we know as the Doctrine and Covenants. The original
revelations are plain speaking and very clear.
What I''m doing is going though the revelations and looking for every
word that seems to be pointing to a hebrew or greek theological term
and either rendering back into the hebrew or greek or translating it forward
into a more literal meaning, which ever will convey what I believe to be the
theological intention of the word. I've rendered every occurence of the word
"God" as "Elohim" simply because it is used like a personal name in the
Tanach (Old Testament) well over 2000 times compared to the 50 or so for
"Eloah" or "El". I use "El" whenever "god" is used like a catagory instead
of a name. I use the transliteration "Iahueh" (Jehovah) to replace all
occurances
of "the Lord" because "Iahueh" is simply the best scholarship is able to come
up with as an actual pronunciation of YHVH, with"Iahushua" (Jesus) naturaly
following. I used "proclaimation" to replace "gospel" because we need to
strip away the familiar to see the Real.
I'm attaching this as a Word file, please take a look at it and make your
critique...I hope you all can do better on this than I.
Thanks folks,
Ken Shaw
THEBOO~1.DOC
Name:
THEBOO~1.DOC
Type:
Microsoft Word Document (application/msword)
Encoding:
base64
Subject:
Robert-Where are you at?
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:10:34 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
ariel144@hotmail.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, bethany0@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net,
dcombe@rain.org, gaia@nmol.com, headgeor@esuvm.emporia.edu, proclus@mac.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, neoptolmus@aol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, kenshaw@dalsemi.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, jswick@cris.com,
74277.3365@compuserve.com
Robert,
I'm trying to map out my future course of action
because "current events" have convinced me that
something's afoot. It's ironic that the prophecies
of the Earliest Brethren (those taught personaly by
Joseph) are being fulfilled TO THE LETTER almost
exactly 100 years later than they expected, just
when the majority of LDS beleive in a "triumphalist"
theology of the "Church" just growing and growing
until it fills the earth.
"The Lord has delayed His coming" they say, and begin
to eat and drink with the drunken.
Where are you at now? Have you worked out a personal
theology and priesthood theory? Are you still hanging
with Fred? Where do think the gathering will be and
around what standard? I'm trying to figure this stuff
out myself because I have a responsibility to my children
and others who are connected to me by blood and love.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Ken Shaw
> From 74277.3365@compuserve.com Fri Feb 27 01:49:12 1998
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:43:57 -0500
> From: "Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Tim Rathbone
> Sender: "Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
> To: Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
> Beth , Don Bradley ,
> Dave , Gaia ,
> George , Michael Love ,
> rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
> Kathleen McGuire ,
> "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
> "R. Trent Reyolds" , Ken Shaw ,
> Randall Shortridge ,
> Joe Steve Swick III
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii>
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Length: 863
>
> The question has been asked as to why we don't want Tim in our group. In
> 1974, I was Xed for believing in the Adam-God doctrine. Five years ago I
> decided that I wanted to get back into the Church. Two years ago, I renewed
> an aquaintance with Tim. A year later (last May), he was present when I
> ordained a fellow to the priesthood. The next morning he turned me into the
> Church as being an enemy of the Church. The Bishop called me in and told me
> that I was not going to be able to rejoin the Church because of the
> ordination that I had performed. In a letter of justification to a group of
> friends of mine and of his, he stated that he turned me in because he had a
> duty to STAMP OUT EVIL IN THE CHURCH.
>
> Don't trust this guy. He can be real nice when he wants something. But he
> can trun on you in a minute.
>
> He also reads Blayne's E-Mail, so becareful.
>
> Robert.
>
Subject:
YHVH=Iahueh=Iao=Aion?
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:23:34 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
ariel144@hotmail.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, bethany0@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net,
dcombe@rain.org, gaia@nmol.com, headgeor@esuvm.emporia.edu, proclus@mac.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, neoptolmus@aol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, kenshaw@dalsemi.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, jswick@cris.com,
74277.3365@compuserve.com
CC:
younbarb@isu.edu, CYeshua@aol.com, sefirot1@aol.com,
jstrimm@swbell.net, clingle@flash.net
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I've been wondering about something
that I hope you can help me with.
The Personal Name of Deity as revealed
to Moses is represented by the letters
YHVH, generaly understood to be the
word "hayah" (eternal coming into being)
rendered into a name.
In the Greco-Egyptian Magical Papyri
render the hebrew diety as "Iao" which
brings us around to a Gnostic vision.
The Greek word "Aion" means both
"eternal" and "universe" in the
sense of cycles of time like "world
ages". The Gnostics used the word
"Aion" to designate "self-existant"
Powers (gods) who act out the cosmic
drama.
Is it useful for us to think of YHVH
as an Aion in the Gnostic sense?
Thanks for your kind consideration.
Ken Shaw
Subject:
Re: YHVH=Iahueh=Iao=Aion?
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:53:56 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
ariel144@hotmail.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, bethany0@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net,
dcombe@rain.org, gaia@nmol.com, headgeor@esuvm.emporia.edu, proclus@mac.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, neoptolmus@aol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, kenshaw@dalsemi.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, jswick@cris.com,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, kenshaw@shemp.dalsemi.com
CC:
younbarb@isu.edu, CYeshua@aol.com, sefirot1@aol.com,
jstrimm@swbell.net, clingle@flash.net
Gaia and All,
Please lay your stuff on us, it sounds
like good solid Kabbalah to me.
I'm working on this because of the haunting
phrase in Chapter 2 of the Book of Commandments
in which the speaker says "my paths are straight
and my course is One Eternal Round".
"One Eternal Round" is evocative of both "Aion"
and the pythagorean image of the Uroboros.
Ken Shaw
Subject:
bundle
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:03:01 -0500
From:
Michael Love
To:
Michael Love
Subject:
Subject:
Re: Tim Rathbone
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:19:36 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , rpc man
, Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
Beth any , Theurgus
References:
1
I'm in a huge hurry right now, so just a quick affirmative note. Clearly, I
have continued my correspondence with Tim. It has been interesting, because
he is such a loose cannon. I have to treat him with great caution. I hope
that none of you are offended by this interaction, as I have been repeatedly
warned about Tim by many of you.
It has been intersting. Recently, he sent me the text of one of Reed C.
Durham's talks on masonry and mormonism. Are any of you familiar with this
document? Would you like me to forward it to the list so that we can poke
some holes in it? ;-}
perfect love and trust all of you
proclus
Robert R. Black wrote:
>
> The question has been asked as to why we don't want Tim in our group. In
> 1974, I was Xed for believing in the Adam-God doctrine. Five years ago I
> decided that I wanted to get back into the Church. Two years ago, I renewed
> an aquaintance with Tim. A year later (last May), he was present when I
> ordained a fellow to the priesthood. The next morning he turned me into the
> Church as being an enemy of the Church. The Bishop called me in and told me
> that I was not going to be able to rejoin the Church because of the
> ordination that I had performed. In a letter of justification to a group of
> friends of mine and of his, he stated that he turned me in because he had a
> duty to STAMP OUT EVIL IN THE CHURCH.
>
> Don't trust this guy. He can be real nice when he wants something. But he
> can trun on you in a minute.
>
> He also reads Blayne's E-Mail, so becareful.
>
> Robert.
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
Re: Tim's post
Date:
Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:18:17 -0500
From:
Randall Shortridge
Organization:
State University of New York
To:
proclus
CC:
rm-l@troubador.com, Tim Rathbone ,
Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" , Joe Steve Swick III ,
ArtdeHoyos , rpc man ,
Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
Beth any , Theurgus
References:
1
Yesterday, I replied to rm-l on this talk and for some reason thought it
had been attributed to Vaughn Featherstone, but see it was Jeppson.
Pardon.
There is something else that really bugs me about this talk.... A
premise that so-called 'apostate' groups can be proven false because
they do not amount to anything. They do not prosper, etc. This seems
to be a drum that is beaten in many talks that cover this subject. I
remember GBH saying it and it was printed in the Ensign.
But, can't the same reasoning be used to show that the Christian
movement led by Peter and Paul were apostate? "All they did was cause
devisiveness. These fellows were burned at the stake and eventually
faded away when we got a wise fellow like Constatine to put them in
their place. Same with Christ, right? He was hung on a cross. That
proves him as an apostate." Anyway, hope you get the point. Same as
in 4th Nephi. The true church is lost and the popular ones likely
called anyone who adhered to the early doctrine as apostate. The
unpopularity of the doctrine is proof, they say.
Just blabbering.
Randall/Eleazar.
proclus wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > This Talk was first given in the Mt. Olympus S.L.C. Stake. At
> > a Stake Leadership meeting on 25 October 1991. Elder Jeppson has
> also
> > given this talk at other leadership meetings one in the Southern
> > California area.
> > Recently Elder Jeppson was made Area Presid ent of Southern
> > Utah. He is giving this talk with some modifications all around
> > Utah to Stake Leaders.
> >
> > We Shall Not Be Led Astray
> > By ELDER MALCOLM S. JEPPSEN of the 70
>
> In terms of the changing Church, 1991 was ages ago, no? I feel that
> the
> Church has a assumed a much less confrontational role since GBH
> assumed the
> mantle. Isn't this material a little dated?
>
> As I have stated elsewhere, Mormonism is bigger than anything that we
> can say
> about it.
>
> proclus
>
> --
> Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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> PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h---
> r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Subject:
Re: Tim Rathbone
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:40:16 -0500
From:
gaia@nmol.com
To:
proclus@mac.com
GAIA:
Sure, i'd be interested in a copy of the document on Masonry...thx!
======== New Mexico Online - Internet Plus, a whole lot more! =========
========================================================================
= Data: 505-299-1111 Telnet: nmol.com Http: www.nmol.com =
========================================================================
Subject:
Re: Tim Rathbone
Date:
Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:08:48 -0800
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
proclus , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
ArtdeHoyos , Randall Shortridge ,
rpc man , Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave
, onandagus@webtv.net,
neoptolmus@aol.com, Beth any , Theurgus
The Durham paper is rather old, but was quite important in its time. It is
still deeper water than most members are wont to swim in.
If you would like to discuss this, I'm certainly not "agin it."
So far as the Malcom Jeppson paper is concerned... I have little good to say
on it. I first saw this during the time Bro. Jeppson was in the thick of
his "work," and I think that subsequent history speaks for itself.
Not every man is a brother, and not every Brother has the welfare of Zion at
heart.
JSW
Subject:
the movie "Dark City"
Date:
Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:40:27 -0500 (EST)
From:
Theurgus
To:
proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com,
jswick@cris.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
rpcman@hotmail.com, gaia@nmol.com,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, dcombe@rain.org, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com
Hail Mutants!
My sons and I saw the new movie "Dark City" last night,
and I have to say that it is ASTONISHING! Please go see it!
Ken
Subject:
The Tarot
Date:
Mon, 02 Mar 1998 02:44:55 -0500
From:
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
Beth ,
Don Bradley , Dave , Gaia ,
George , Michael Love ,
rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
"R. Trent Reyolds" , Ken Shaw ,
Randall Shortridge , Joe Steve Swick III
I am hoping that Joe and Gaia have a lot more to say about the Tarot. I was
hoping for some discussion.
Robert.
Subject:
Robert-Where are you at?
Date:
Mon, 02 Mar 1998 02:45:18 -0500
From:
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Ken Shaw
CC:
Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
Beth ,
Don Bradley , Dave , Gaia ,
George , Michael Love ,
rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
"R. Trent Reyolds" , Randall Shortridge ,
Joe Steve Swick III
Ken,
>Where are you at now? Have you worked out a personal
>theology and priesthood theory? Are you still hanging
>with Fred? Where do think the gathering will be and
>around what standard? I'm trying to figure this stuff
>out myself because I have a responsibility to my children
>and others who are connected to me by blood and love.
I haven't been hanging with Fred for years. But I got to know him in 1973.
I believe a lot like Fred. I believe in the Adam-God doctrine and I believe
in plural marriage. I believe that a man must live plural marriage in order
to receive exaltation. I believe that the Keys of the Priesthood were given
by Joseph Smith to the council of Fifty. One of the men to receive them was
Benjamine F. Johnson. Benjamine F. Johnson passed on his keys to Dayer
LeBaron who gave them to Ross or Joel LeBaron. These two men gave them to
each other to be sure that they each received them. Ross passed on his keys
to a select few. Joel did not. I was one of the few that received them from
Ross. These keys are available to all who desire to get them from me. There
is supposed to be a whole nation of Kings and Priests. But for some reason
the Church stopped giving them, primarily because it wanted to stop PM. PM
is a neccessary for one to advance in the priesthood.
Adoption is also a necessaary part of the Gospel. A person needs to be
adopted into the family of God in order to go to the Celestial Kingdom and
to receive the Patriarchal priesthood.
The gathering place is supposed to be Utah. But there is good reason to
believe that a portion of the elite will gather in Mexico. Especially in
Pacheco. The was a temple cite dedicated there around the turn of the
century. It is exactly where the thirtieth parrelell crosses the
continental divide. It was prophesied that the leaders of the Church would
have to go there to be protected from those calamities that were to follow.
At the present there is not any of the members of the Church there. The
colony was abandoned many years ago.
Please ask more questions. I will be happppy to answer.
Robert.
Subject:
Re: YHVH=Iahueh=Iao=Aion?
Date:
Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:16:01 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
ariel144@hotmail.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, bethany0@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net,
dcombe@rain.org, gaia@nmol.com, headgeor@esuvm.emporia.edu, proclus@mac.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, neoptolmus@aol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, kenshaw@dalsemi.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, jswick@cris.com,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, kenshaw@shemp.dalsemi.com
CC:
younbarb@isu.edu, CYeshua@aol.com, sefirot1@aol.com,
jstrimm@swbell.net, clingle@flash.net
Gaia,
You have to use the "reply all" command to make
sure your responses go to everyone on the list.
The movie "Dark City" reminded me of the Kalachakra
Tantra tradition of tibetian Buddhism. Kalachakra
means "circle of time" and is concerned with things
like astrological ages (aions) and views the cosmos
as a kind of mechanism that allows sudden advences
in conciousness only at certain intervals, when a kind
of window of "unconditioned" time opens up.
Since "time" is now viewed as an actual "substance",
the so-called "space-time continuum", then time
could be said to be "being" in some sense. The
divisions of time into Aions would make indiviual
"beings". Since all phenomona arises from space-time
as its ultimate "ground", these Aions would be what
we think of as being "God".
This is the kind of lunacy I'm dreaming up now.
Ken Shaw
Subject:
Re: Robert-Where are you at?
Date:
Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:33:30 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com, 74277.3365@compuserve.com
CC:
ariel144@hotmail.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, bethany0@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net,
dcombe@rain.org, gaia@nmol.com, headgeor@esuvm.emporia.edu, proclus@mac.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, neoptolmus@aol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, jswick@cris.com
Robert,
I really like Fred personaly, but there are a few things
about what he's doing that strike me funny, and maybe a
little delusional and obsessive.
I know how easy it is for the "self" to sneek in and claim
the robe of sanctity.
I've made a connection to the Sufi tradition of Islam, and
the more I learn, the more it looks like what Joseph Smith
had in mind. The "Law of Adoption" looks like the connection
that followers make with the Sufi Shaykh in Islam, or the
Rebbe in Hasidic Judaism, or the Guru in Tantric Buddhism.
All these things are refering to a Reality that Joseph somehow
came to understand independantly.
Where are you living? I'd like to visit with you one of these days.
Ken Shaw
Subject:
Halachic Worship?
Date:
Tue, 03 Mar 1998 03:42:03 -0500
From:
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Ken Shaw
CC:
Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
Beth ,
Don Bradley , Dave , Gaia ,
George , Michael Love ,
rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
"R. Trent Reyolds" , Randall Shortridge ,
Joe Steve Swick III
Ken,
> The singing of Psalms and Prayers in Hebrew, perhaps
>using the melodies marked in the text called "cantilation"
>as well as the ancient and primordial Pentatonic scale of
>pure fifths instead of modern tunings. There is a "call
>and response" form where the leader sings one part and the
>congregation responds with the other.
There are a half dozen ways that the cantilation marks can be interpreted.
Which is the most authentic.
>I would also add that there is plenty of circumstantial
>evidence that the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy preserves
>very old material and it would serve us well to consider
>the use of candles or oil lamps for lighting as well as
>Halachicly formulated incense for censing the Ark of the
>Torah, the Torah Scroll itself, the Reader, and the
>Congregation.
You ought to visit the Syrian Church some time. They have it all. As for me
and my house, let us worship in an informal and spirit filled kind of way.
Robert.
Subject:
YHVH=Iahueh=Iao=Aion?
Date:
Tue, 03 Mar 1998 03:42:20 -0500
From:
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Ken Shaw
CC:
Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
Beth ,
Don Bradley , Dave , Gaia ,
George , Michael Love ,
rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
"R. Trent Reyolds" , Randall Shortridge ,
Joe Steve Swick III
Ken,
>Is it useful for us to think of YHVH
>as an Aion in the Gnostic sense?
As I remember YHVH was an Aion in the Gnostic sense. And a wicked one at
that.
Robert.
Subject:
The Tarot
Date:
Tue, 03 Mar 1998 03:42:54 -0500
From:
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
Beth ,
Don Bradley , Dave , Gaia ,
George , Michael Love ,
rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
"R. Trent Reyolds" , Ken Shaw ,
Randall Shortridge , Joe Steve Swick III
Joe,
>I am happy to continue on with the discussion if there is an interest.
>Would anyone like to discuss the Magician?
>
>Regards,
>JSW
By all means, Joe, let's go.
Robert.
Subject:
Re: 12th Planet
Date:
Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:55:35 -0500
From:
Michael Love
To:
proclus@mac.com
GAIA:
More on Tarot, RE: Temperance and the Star cards:
Note too that while the Star has the Angel pouring out the blessings of
God upon the Earth from Above, the Temperance card h as the angel
actually upon the earth, one foot on the ground, the other on the
water (in some decks).
ON THE STAR (#17):
The Goddess called Mistress of Earth and Sea; reappears on the 17th
trump. Her earlier counterpart, the Empress, was clothed, but now she
is revealed, "sky-clad"....pouring out living waters on land and sea
from her two jars (breasts) while 7 stars shine above, one brightest.
The card was also the Star of Isis, symbolic of the annual Nile flood
that brought the food of life too all.....Hermetic texts invoked as
Mother Isis the same star-Goddess, known in Carthage as the Celestial
Virgin or Astroarche, Queen of Stars. It was usual for the Goddess to
be accompanied by 7 priestesses,....andseveral names of the Goddess
(Astarte, Ishtar, Esther, Ashtoreth, Ostara or Eostre - mean "Star" and
are the origins for "Easter".
The oracular 7 were the original 7 Sages of Arabia, were said to be
female, known as the 7 Pillars of Wisdom, and the ir wise sayings were
Wisdom's "pearls"...Proverbs 9:1 speaks of "Goddess of Wisdom, hewn out
her 7 pillars."
Also refers to the Pleiades, all daughters of Aphrodite, whose totemwasa
dove. Another of her titles, "Stella Maris," "Star of the Sea", was
later copied by Christians and applied to Virgin Mary,. The image of
the Holy Spiriti descending on Jesus in form of a dove was copied from
the iconography of the Goddess.
The annual Tibetan festival of "settiang free of the waters of springs"
is still announced by the rising of the Dog Star.....Sothis (Sirius),
the soul of Osiris in heaven. The rising of his star was heralded by
the 3 wise men, the three stars in the belt of Orion, which point toward
the Dog Star.
In Asia Minor the Star goddess was Artemis Caryatis, often worshipped in
the form of a pillar. Portraits of her seven priestesses were the
caryatides, original "pillars of the Church" carved in the shape of
women.
After the destruction of the House of God (the previous caard in the
Trumps) the Goddess' reappe arance i n the M aj or Arcana may be interpreted
as a wish-fulfilllment symbol of the post-revolutionary world, when the
Godess/ Heavenly Mother would be restored to Her rightful place.
This relates a bit to another myth -- the Grail legend, which was
actually pre-christian in origin. The grail has always been a symbol
of female power/ energy, Goddess as nurturer, even as Her breasts (in
whose form the cup/ chalice is shaped) nurture all life. The Crusaders
brought back stories of a dreadful land to the south that was hot and
desolate. The Norse had a legend about the "Mutspell" - the most
frigtening, dreadful curse that could be spoken - the curse of a mother
over her thoughtless, ungrateful children. They believed that the world
would end in a future time when "the Great Goddess would pronounce upon
the world Her Mutspell, because of its faithlessness and lack of
appreciation, when men would forget or discredit/ dishonor their
mothers." She would bring upon them the curse of Desolation. The
symbol would be a loss of the Grail - the blessings and powers of the
Goddess, the nurturing of the Female principle, and they would learn
(perhaps too late) their folly in failing to perceive the divinity in
females. THIS is the origin/ meaning of the Grail legend.
In her great and critically acclailmed book, "the Chalice and the
Blade," Rianne Eisler recounts this lengend, and explains the true
meaning of the "Hieros Gamos" - the union symbolized by the symbolic
union of the chalice (grail) and the blade (knife) : that signifies the
sacred union of all dualities: male and female, light and darkness,
logic and emotion, mind and body, spirit and matter, heaven and earth,
order and chaos, birth and death, etc.
Hope somebody enjoys this --
Gaia
======== New Mexico Online - Internet Plus, a whole lot more! =========
========================================================================
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Subject:
[Fwd: pseudo-History]
Date:
Tue, 10 Mar 1998 17:55:57 -0500
From:
Michael Love
To:
Michael Love
Subject:
pseudo-History
Date:
Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:31:24 -0600
From:
"Norman H. Redington"
To:
love@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU
Hello:
I notice you have a St. Dionysius page. We have
the Syriac Liturgy of St Dionysius at:
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/St.Pachomius/dionysius/lit.html
Hopefully we will eventually have all the
Areopagetic writings there.
Dionysios Redington
St Pachomius Library
Subject:
Re: [Fwd: pseudo-History]
Date:
Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:37:48 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , "Norman H. Redington"
References:
1
Thank you so much for this information, which I have passed on to my friends.
I am excited to hear that there will finally be Dionysian writings on the web!
Will give the liturgy a link in a few days. Thank you for your work on the web.
proclus
> Hello:
>
> I notice you have a St. Dionysius page. We have
> the Syriac Liturgy of St Dionysius at:
> http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/St.Pachomius/dionysius/lit.html
> Hopefully we will eventually have all the
> Areopagetic writings there.
>
> Dionysios Redington
> St Pachomius Library
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
YHVH=>Eternal
Date:
Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:21:24 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
Armstrong.Trent@amstr.com, aub-l@troubador.com, dialbart@sisna.com, bbashaw@gtelco.net,
c.blase@mailexcite.com, BrigitteNi@aol.com, bhuntin687@aol.com, rtcc@train.missouri.org,
chrisbly@hotmail.com, koes@gowebway.com,
bro-brigham@worldnet.att.net, detcpa7@aol.com,
babbel@wharton.upenn.edu, dcombe@rain.org, mirele@xmission.com, haileycat@yahoo.com,
rmucofmt@train.missouri.org, j.ahlin@m.cc.utah.edu,
dela@infowest.com, gunthers@earthlink.net,
jswick@cris.com, johnrl@mail.aros.net, mormon@lofthouse.com,
mahonri@eee.org, klarson@tlcmanti.org,
kelvinh@apricot.mee.com, kenshaw@dalsemi.com, polygamy@lov.com, ravensara@tlcmanti.org,
lowellmj@juno.com, mkchurch@worldnet.att.net, nathan.t@virgin.net, pmdlady@aol.com,
tkj@burgoyne.com, rkadams@earthlink.net, oh.dad@juno.com,
ron7@rocketmail.com, smith@manti.com,
William_Cooper_3@compuserve.com, wng@jbs.org, taxplan@manti.com
CC:
proclus@mac.com
Wayne,
It's great to hear from ya' man!
I'm planning a trip to Utah this summer and would like to visit you.
I'm forwarding this post that I sent to a "Jewish Roots" list because
you might find it of interest.
Ken Shaw
---------------------------------------------------------------------
James and All,
I've been wondering about the possiblity
of actually translating out the name YHVH
into some kind of english equivalent, and
then just using that english equivalant as
the Name.
I know that the Reform Siddur uses "Eternal"
as the translation of YHVH, which makes sense
because of the root meaning of was-is-always-being.
I've suggested the awkward sounding "existence-itself",
but that has a harsh "modern philosophy" quality to it.
The reason I'm going through this exercise is that
the compound Name YHVH-Elohim (the Lord God)
takes on a whole new light if it's translated out literally
as "Eternal-Gods".
Thanks folks,
Ken Shaw
Subject:
hot bundle from Ken
Date:
Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:38:06 -0500
From:
Michael Love
To:
Michael Love
Subject:
Subject:
mutantRMs
Date:
Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:02:09 -0500 (EST)
From:
Theurgus
To:
mutants@iname.com
Proclus,
I hate to be a pain-in-the-ass, but could you
make Theurgus@aol.com my "official" Mutant
name and address?
Thanks man,
Ken
Subject:
MED: visions/texts
Date:
Thu, 05 Mar 1998 11:35:12 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
proclus@mac.com
CC:
jswick@cris.com, onandagus@webtv.net, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, younbarb@isu.com
----- Begin Included Message -----
>From owner-mediators@st-andrews.ac.uk Thu Mar 5 11:29:31 1998
From: "Professor L.W. Hurtado"
To: mediators@st-andrews.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:08:12 +000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Subject: MED: visions/texts
Reply-To: L.Hurtado@ed.ac.uk
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54)
Sender: owner-mediators@st-andrews.ac.uk
Content-Length: 1773
Ian Hutchesson asks what the point/benefit is of asking whether
"vision" experiences may lie behind this or that ancient text. I
fully grant the theoretical difficulty in trying deal with what kind
of religious experientiality ancients enjoyed. But as to the
rationale for the question, it is simply part of historical
investigation of ancient Judaism, ancient Christianity, ancient
"paganism" to want to know what was the religious life like. The
surviving texts were "thrown up" by some force(s), and the
"religious" ones by "religious" forces (with allowance that what
constitutes "religious" is very historically & culturally variable).
So, Ian, however difficult it may be to satisfy a determined critic
of one's results, the question of what sorts of experience may have
contributed to the vision-accounts in ancient apocalyptic & other
forms of texts is simply a quite understandable historical one.
We cannot interview the ancient authors, but neither can we interview
the authors of other ancient texts, or the users of ancient
artefacts, or anybody else from antiquity. But this needn't stop
valid historical inquiry as to what kinds of human life, experience,
thought, activities may have been going on.
And the ways we address such questions involve analogous phenomena.
And we have lots of examples of religious movements & texts arising
from the powerful religious experiences of founder figures (or "minor
founder figures"). It's going on currently. African Independent
churches, Japanese indiginous movements, Ghost Dance movement, Baha
Ullah, Guru Nanak, etc. etc.
L. W. Hurtado
University of Edinburgh,
New College
Mound Place
Edinburgh, Scotland EH1 2LX
Phone: 0131-650-8920
Fax: 0131-650-6579
E-mail: L.Hurtado@ed.ac.uk
----- End Included Message -----
Subject:
[rm-l] useful hermetic magic website
Date:
Mon, 09 Mar 1998 11:40:05 -0600 (CST)
From:
kenshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
Reply-To:
rm-l@troubador.com
To:
rm-l@mail.cm2.com
Howdy!
I found some kewl magic stuff at:
www.tiac.net/users/wgenest/index.html
Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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RULE #1: NO FIGHTING OR PERSONAL INSULTS. TAKE IT OFF LIST.
Subject:
Robert new address
Date:
Fri, 13 Mar 1998 03:05:17 -0500
From:
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Beth any , Artdel-Hoyos ,
Beth ,
Don Bradley , Dave , Gaia ,
George , Michael Love ,
rpc man , Andy McGuire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
"R. Trent Reyolds" , Ken Shaw ,
Randall Shortridge , Joe Steve Swick III
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: INTERNET:tim-rathbone@juno.com, INTERNET:tim-rathbone@juno.com
TO: Robert R. Black, 74277,3365
DATE: 03-12-98 10:12 PM
RE: Robert new address
Sender: tim-rathbone@juno.com
Received: from x11.boston.juno.com (x11.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.26])
by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) with ESMTP id WAA19398
for ?.3365@compuserve.com> Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:11:49 -0500 (EST)
From: tim-rathbone@juno.com
Received: (from tim-rathbone@juno.com)
by x11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WsI07889; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:10:55 EST
To: 74277.3365@compuserve.com
Subject: Robert new address
Message-ID: ?.191106.4743.0.Tim-Rathbone@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-7
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:10:55 EST
Robert for now this is my new e mail address.
how are you? how have you been?
My system crashed so if you could please tell Mike Love proclus that
this is my new address and joe swick.. and others on the mutantrm list.
thanks.
much
Tim
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Subject:
[Fwd: Durham presentation]
Date:
Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:31:55 -0500
From:
Michael Love
To:
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
Durham presentation
Date:
Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:18:32 -0500 (EST)
From:
Neoptolmus
To:
proclus@mac.com
I have inadvertantly deleted my copy of the Reed Durham piece on the widow's
son. Would it be to much trouble to send me another copy?
Trevo
r
Subject:
GODS-R-US
Date:
Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:58:38 -0800
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
Blayne Sukut , Beth any ,
Vicki Porritt ,
"Yoshimi Nagai (Nihon Convention Serv)" ,
Michael Love , Kathleen McGuire ,
George Head , Gaia ,
Cyril Huang , Brian Irwin ,
ArtdeHoyos , "Kathy E. Christensen" ,
Richh Hiltbrunn , Stephen Escobedo
More cool "religious statuary" than you can shake a thyrsus at! And you
thought the gods of the ancient world were dead...
Buy your own Asherah! Buy a statue of Baal for your office or study! Some of
the greate st idols of all time, and I don't mean rock stars!
Just go here: http://jblstatue.com/pages/ and be very amazed.
Now you know just how new the new age is!
JSW
(PS. My own favorite is the "Net Goddess." I imagine that she will soon be
rehabilitated as a symbol of WorldWide Web)
Subject:
Hey out there!
Date:
Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:27:33 -0800 (PST)
From:
Beth any
To:
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com,
donbradley@webtv.net, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, ariel144@hotmail.com,
Sidheach@aol.com, proclus@mac.com, rpcman@hotmail.com, gaia@nmol.com
Hey everyone!
It's Beth here. I've been without a computer for awhile. Had to give it
up in the divorce and all. My life is just not the same without the net
and especially this list.
I wanted to ask Proclus if he is still archiving this stuff?
If I could get the address to the website that has the archives
I'd kiss your feet 1000 times.
I am really mad I probably missed all the Tarot stuff. Been studying it
a great deal lately. So hopefully some of that stuff is saved
somewhere.....
Well if anyone has any old computers they want to get rid of I'm
interested :-) ....... he he he....
I have a new phone number. Anyone who wants to call is always
more than welcome. 925 (new area code, I hope that's correct) 938-
0176.
Hey Gaia - Let me know when you are done with my books and video. I have
a waiting list for them. More importantly let me know
if you found any of it useful or of interest. Thanks.
Love y'all. I'll be back at some point (with a vengeance ;-)
Beth
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Subject:
world scriptures
Date:
Sat, 04 A pr 19 9 8 15:14:12 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , rpc man
, Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
Beth any , Theurgus
Here is an excellent list of the scriptures of many nations that are available
on line.
http://www.cweb.net/~christer/religion-script.html
regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
RE: world scritures
Date:
Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:17:09 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , rpc man
, Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
Beth any , Theurgus
I was thinking of adding a link to this webpage from the mutant homepage, as
these things require some long term attention. Let me know what you think.
Here is the link again.
http://www.cweb.net/~christer/religion-script.html
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
The Sufis Mystery
Date:
Wed, 08 Apr 1998 10:25:24 -0500
From:
kens@cyrix.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
proclus@mac.com
Hail Mutants!
This intimate little circle has practicaly
fallen silent the past few weeks...sooo...
this is an effort to stir up the beehive.
The Protestants are absolutly correct in saying
that Mormonism is an irreconcilable heresy that
no connection at all to "historical Christianity".
That's fine...why would anyone want to be "Christian"
from their point of view, unless one wanted to present
a "normative" face to the world so as to exploit masses
of "converts" to get the "gain and praise of the world".
I'm here to report that, after 25 years of trying to figure
out what Joseph Smith was actually trying to do, it looks
like he was an agent of some kind of "Gnostic" Islam.
The Sufis claim that their tradition has been in continuous
operation on this planet since the "begining", and that
there exists a community somewhere in the mountains of
Kafiristan or Afghanistan called the Sarmoun Brotherhood
that has been in continuous operation since the Flood of Noah.
"Sarmoun" is Persian for "Bees", which describes their function
of gathering "nectar" and distributing "pollen" for the development
of humanity leading to eventual planetary fulfilment and salvation.
The Abrahamic tradition is a specialized "subset" of the greater
Noachide tradition. Abraham paid tithes and shared a sacramental
meal with Melchizedek, Priest of El Elyon. Who was this Melchizedek?
The Talmud states that he was none other than Shem, the son of Noah
who came through the Flood, and that he had established a Yeshiva
(religious school) for the passing on the knowledge of the prediluvian
world to this new world in it's new state.
The Sufis then are claiming that this Melchizedekian school still
exists in the mountains of central Asia, and is continuing its work
in the world.
Who WERE the "wise men from the East" who came looking for the newborn
Davidic Heir Iaohushua (Jesus)...in exactly the same way that Tibetans
go looking for their precious teachers by following dreams and signs?
In the Gospel of Philip we see Jesus leading his deciples in a "circle
dance" which leads to unusual experiences. This technique has continued
down to this day is the Sufi Orders of Islam, and has spread out in various
forms from the pop new-age "Dances of Universal Peace", to Scottish round
dancing and Morris (Moorish) dancing, to the widdershins circling of the
"Black Man" (Moor) in European "witchcraft".
There is a mystery here, and here, at the end of history, we need to
conciously make the next step to a religion meant for grown-ups, instead
of being held in perpetual childhood by the Big Daddy Patriarchy.
Ken Shaw
Subject:
The Sufis Mystery
Date:
Wed, 08 Apr 1998 10:25:24 -0500
From:
kens@cyrix.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
proclus@mac.com
Hail Mutants!
This intimate little circle has practicaly
fallen silent the past few weeks...sooo...
this is an effort to stir up the beehive.
The Protestants are absolutly correct in saying
that Mormonism is an irreconcilable heresy that
no connection at all to "historical Christianity".
That's fine...why would anyone want to be "Christian"
from their point of view, unless one wanted to present
a "normative" face to the world so as to exploit masses
of "converts" to get the "gain and praise of the world".
I'm here to report that, after 25 years of trying to figure
out what Joseph Smith was actually trying to do, it looks
like he was an agent of some kind of "Gnostic" Islam.
The Sufis claim that their tradition has been in continuous
operation on this planet since the "begining", and that
there exists a community somewhere in the mountains of
Kafiristan or Afghanistan called the Sarmoun Brotherhood
that has been in continuous operation since the Flood of Noah.
"Sarmoun" is Persian for "Bees", which describes their function
of gathering "nectar" and distributing "pollen" for the development
of humanity leading to eventual planetary fulfilment and salvation.
The Abrahamic tradition is a specialized "subset" of the greater
Noachide tradition. Abraham paid tithes and shared a sacramental
meal with Melchizedek, Priest of El Elyon. Who was this Melchizedek?
The Talmud states that he was none other than Shem, the son of Noah
who came through the Flood, and that he had established a Yeshiva
(religious school) for the passing on the knowledge of the prediluvian
world to this new world in it's new state.
The Sufis then are claiming that this Melchizedekian school still
exists in the mountains of central Asia, and is continuing its work
in the world.
Who WERE the "wise men from the East" who came looking for the newborn
Davidic Heir Iaohushua (Jesus)...in exactly the same way that Tibetans
go looking for their precious teachers by following dreams and signs?
In the Gospel of Philip we see Jesus leading his deciples in a "circle
dance" which leads to unusual experiences. This technique has continued
down to this day is the Sufi Orders of Islam, and has spread out in various
forms from the pop new-age "Dances of Universal Peace", to Scottish round
dancing and Morris (Moorish) dancing, to the widdershins circling of the
"Black Man" (Moor) in European "witchcraft".
There is a mystery here, and here, at the end of history, we need to
conciously make the next step to a religion meant for grown-ups, instead
of being held in perpetual childhood by the Big Daddy Patriarchy.
Ken Shaw
----- End Included Message -----
Subject:
[Fwd: The Sufis Mystery]
Date:
Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:27:17 -0400
From:
Michael Love
To:
Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds"