Andy Gritz ========== Andy Wow, that horror story of yours really hits home. It has so many instructive aspects. I remember that letter to the editor. The woman really bashed new agers, pagans, and goddess religion. I think this is the clue as to what went awry. She seems intolerant. How interesting that such a person should become involved in some of the most powerful operations of Mormon Paganism, like illegal temple ceremonies. Would that she could have read some of our posts! On the one hand these events show how powerfully transformative the operations are. On the other, they illustrate the dangers for the ill-equipped and the unprepared. I'm sure not ready, and I often hope that I never am. I am reminded of the allegory of the Chapel Perilous. She is among those individuals who stand in fear before the Chapel. They will tell you that it is an insectoid death demon dripping fetid green goo. What a joke. This person cries out against paganism, but chants in circles! The Chapel is our continuing initiation. It can empower us or cripple us. This is why I told you that the Church is not ready for the unveiling of the company of heaven. The Lord's anointed remain invisible for now, because those who beheld them would be destroyed by the vision of their gloriousness. Before them it is the garden of Eden. Behind them it is a desolate wasteland, but the time is not yet. Think of our beloved Right Wing Crazy brethren, who are taking the fast track out of the Church, as premature mutants. The boarders are dangerous, not for the faint of heart. Ask Sonia. fishing in a sea of shredded triple combinations proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:23 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/10 7:15 PM TO: ALL FROM: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS It is ridiculous to think that in the age of information and Prodigy that there is anything that we can't talk about. I want to know how a group from the far right wing of the Church got the idea of doing illicit temple rituals. Now THAT is fascinating. The Manti story is very important and needs to be discussed in detail. dizzy proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:24 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/11 7:42 AM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: GREG STEWART (FVKR02A) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS I agree. I would like to know more about it. In 1985 there was a similar incident in Pocatello ID that I had to deal with while I was living there and serving in the Bishopric. There were lots of excommunications. I'm still curious as to how people can do this. What causes it?? Faithfully curious in WA ggs PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:24 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/11 11:22 AM TO: GREG STEWART (FVKR02A) FROM: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS Greg I think I heard about this Idaho incident. Tell me, were there also crazy right wing teachings AND illicit temple rituals that time? dance proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:26 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/11 11:23 AM TO: DALE ARMSTRONG (MVJG33A) FROM: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS Dale In some kind of crazy way, I agree with you. I can certainly think of my own rationalization for having illicit temple rituals. My rationalizations, however, do NOT come from the teachings of far right Mormons, like Bo Gritz. I need to know THEIR rationalization. more than curious prcls PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:27 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/11 7:11 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: C MARSTON (JR) (KXBN51A) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS Proclus, You don't have to go too far right to start running into problems. Even on these boards I have read things from our more "liberal" left wings that say, "Such and such was practiced openly in the early days of the church....one seems to get such a lift and added spirituality from it...I can't see any reason why the Brothren would be against it it now." Whether it be prayer, priesthood or polygamy, the further one drifts from the center the more one is prone to drifting into, as you termed it, "illicit" practices. It comes from the same root...the believe that a particular member has special or more complete knowledge or is more in tune than the leaders but it manifests in several ways: the leaders are wrong because they differ with what Joseph Smith said or did; the leaders are wrong because they are saying something different than what Pres. Benson said before he became President; or, and this is the most incideous one, I can see nothing wrong with this. Now you know, as well as I, that there are things taught or demonstrated in the temple that should remain there. However, you get a group of people together who start discussing some of these things in detail in a "study group" and they may very easily go from discussion to demonstration to incorporating some of the actual rites into their study. There is, of course, "nothing wrong with this" because all have been to the temple...except for the fact that these practices are reserved for the temple. Then to have actually gained entrance to the temple after hours, as has been alleged, so that they would have a "better" setting for their discussions and practices removes the onus of discussing them out of the temple...but still does not authorize them to use the House of the Lord for this purpose. I, like others, decline from talking specifically about rumors I have heard because they are only rumors. I have no facts to present. But they tend to treat subjects raised late in a temple session...so rumor says. So I do believe they are of a serious nature. Charlie Ogden, Ut 01/11/93 17:01 PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:37 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TO: KXBN51A SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS DATE: 01/11/1993 Charlie Thanx! That's the best explanation I've heard so far, and I downloaded your post. Also, it makes me wonder. What you describe is a kind of experimental probing, in private groups. I am not one to speak of others unrighteousness, but it seems that there must be other unrepented sins in place already for this kind of illicit practice to occur. That's what made this subject so difficult for me. I mean these crazy right wingers seem pretty fanatical to me and it's hard for me to imagine them sinning at all! Beleive it or not, this could almost make proclus a centrist! PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:38 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/11 7:19 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: GREG STEWART (FVKR02A) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS The answer is yes and yes. Although it didn't start out that way. It kind of evolved into unbelievable teachings and "backyard" temple rituals. It started out as a simple discussion group held on a week night at the Gospel Doctrine teacher's home. Before it was over, the Elder's presidency and members of the Bishopric, among others, had lost their membership. Sad thing. ggs in WA PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/11/93 10:41 PM RELIGION TOPIC: LATTER-DAY SAINTS TIME: 01/11 9:54 PM TO: ALL FROM: EUGENE SHEELY (RGKJ61B) SUBJECT: EXCOMMUNCATIONS From what I have read, there was a family in Manti which was inviting members to their home and teaching them false doctrines and portions of the temple cerimony. This family refused to stop inviting people to their home and holding these "study sesions". If anyone outside of this family was excommunicated as part of this situation has not, to the best of my knowledge, been made public. >>> An article in the Salt Lake Tribune indicated that Bo Gritz was leading a group of fanatics who had fallen in disfavor with the church. I believe it would be more correct to say that a group of fanatics who fell in disfavor with the church were supporting Bo Gritz. I have not seen any evidence that Bo was supporting these groups, nor heard any claims that his membership is in jeperdy. Not that it is any of my buissness if is membership is in jeperdy or not.
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