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Goddess Dance
=============
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/06/92        3:52 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/04  5:02 PM

TO:      ALL
FROM:    MICHELLE SMITH   (GHDV95B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-GODDESS/MOTHR

Hi All!
  I'm new to Prodigy; I'm so glad I found this BB.  It's
exciting to see some open discussion on topics which are
discouraged in other forums.
  To get right to my point, I'd like to see a little
discussion of our Heavenly Mother.  I agree with Carol Lynn
Pearson; we've been "children in a motherless house."  It
amazes me that the L.D.S. church would be so progressive as
to acknowledge a divine mother (especially when they seem so
conservative and backwards on other womens' issues!)
  Do you think the church needs to go farther in addressing
what sort of relationships we ought to have with Mother?  I
find it disturbing that we have a Mother, but aren't
supposed to address Her (in prayer.)  For example, would you
go out to dinner with your earthly parents and expect to
converse only with your father; to let all communication
from your mother come through him, even though she was right
there with you? MORE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  To you non-L.D.S. reading this, what are your perspectives
on Her?

  Shell


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/06/92        3:53 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/05  4:56 PM

TO:      MICHELLE SMITH   (GHDV95B)
FROM:    JENNIFER CROSS   (NKHW38B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-GODDESS/MOTHR

Welcome Shell,
Beware yea who wander here! Just kidding. It can get pretty
rough here so stick to your guns!
As some of the members already know, I am Catholic. {Have at
it Dan .}  Needless to say, I pray to Mary. And I pray to
her every night. I'm not praying to her as a "female" god,
but as a figure head. After all,she was, and is, the mother
of Our Savior. Catholics pray to her in respect for her
part in raising Jesus, and as a Heavenly Mother. To put it
in terms I usually used for all the people who SLAMMED ME
for praying to her, she is a back door to God! {I'm
probably going to catch it from silently observing
Catholics now...} We ask her for guidance and ask her to
help us pray to God. She is the only human, Jesus excluded,
to be born without sin. How many people can honestly claim
that Honor, which was bestowed upon her by the Lord himself!
I'm getting preachy. Anyway, for those who do not know the
Hail Mary, I will write it out.                 >>>>>>
Hail Mary, full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee,
Blessed are thou amoungst women,
And blessed is the fruit  of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now, and at the hour of our Death,
Amen.                              dominus vobiscum
                                          Jenn


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/06/92        6:35 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       GHDV95B
SUBJECT:  MORMON-GODDESS/MOTHR
DATE:     06/06/1992


Michelle

Welcome!  I want to say right from the start that I agree
many of your thoughts.  I am perhaps inordinately devoted to
Goddess.  I share your sorrow over the neglect of the Elect
Lady.  On the other hand, I feel that I have had some
insights of late which you and Jenn may appreciate.

I've encapsulated my "objection" into a single propositon
that you might find interesting for discussion.
Traditonally, the nurturing role has been attributed to the
Heavenly Consort.  The images are of Her children blessed by
the nectar of Her breast.  You wouldn't nurse from God's
breast.  Why would you pray to Goddess?  Perhaps Her role
encompasses something larger than being an object of
worship.  Remember, there are other forms of communication
besides prayer.  She yearns to us, Her children.  She is the
Mother who is ALWAYS there, waiting to receive us.

Hail!  Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness,
and our hope.  To you do we cry, poor banished children of
Eve.  To you do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping
is this valley of tears.  Turn then, O most gracious
advocate, your eyes of mercy toward us; and after this
exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of your womb, Jesus.
O clement!  O loving!  O sweet Virgin Mary!

Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.  That we may be made
worthy of the promises of Christ.

rapt

proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/09/92        1:45 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/07  3:00 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    JENNIFER CROSS   (NKHW38B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-GODDESS/MOTHR

Dear Michael,

I agree with everything you are saying. I feel MY praying to
Mary is out of respect, not to exhault her as a Goddess. The
Catholic Church has 18 Principal Feast days honoring Our
Mother. I won't write them all out unless you want them. If
the Lord didn't want us to repect the Holy Mother, he would
have just zapped Jesus onto the earth. (not orthodox
Catholic teaching!)
I really enjoy your prayer to Mary, it's beautiful.

                           dominus vobiscum
                        (The Lord is with you)
                                Jenn


----------------------------------------------------------------------
READ A MESSAGE                                                06/08/92
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ERIKA DIEHL (TFRC82B)
Subject: MAGICK
Sent on: 06/07 at 08:06 PM

m.

are you a wiccan?? i am just finding my way through this forest. i
have been reading a lot lately.....could you help me along?? blessings
be, erika the laughing one



----------------------------------------------------------------------
WRITE A MESSAGE                                               06/08/92
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 SEND TO:  ERIKA DIEHL  (TFRC82B)
 SUBJECT:  MAGICK

Erica

I'm not Wiccan, but I take your inquiry as a compliment.  Are you
related to Digby?  I'd be happy to be on your side for a while if you
promise to contribute to our discussion or ask questions on the board.
Every one has something to contribute!
                      Welcome ye all
                                    proclus



PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/09/92        1:41 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/06  1:13 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

Proclus,
   If by "western esoteric tradition" you mean Wicca, then
the answer is "yes" to the dance, and "I can't remember" to
the alter.  Let me check my copy of THE SPIRAL DANCE and see
what I can find out.
   If you are refering to the Golden Dawn & company, well,
you probably know more about that than I do.           >>>>>
   I do know that an alter is needed by the GD aspirant as a
place to store his magical weapons and a place to center
ritual activity (see Regardie's GARDEN OF POMEGRANITES,
p142).  And work is done within a circle, but not (as
wiccans do) by a literal circle of people.  Again, you
probably know more than I do, Mike.


                                   \/ Andrew
                                   /\


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/09/92        1:42 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/06  1:15 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    PATRICIA CHRISTMAS   (DRPC38B)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

Michael,
  Absolutely, assuming that the "circle dance" you are
referring to is the same or similar to the spiral ance
practised in the various neo- pagan groves, circles, etc.
The spiral dance is a religious dance in which the
worshippers jion hands and dance in a circle that spirals in
toward the center of the circle, and then outward again,
representing the cycles of birth, death, and rebirth, be it
physical, spiritual, or whatever.  There can be an altar
present, as the dance is used at religious ceremonies, but
there doesn't necessarily have to be one. (Sometimes it's
easier when you don't have to worry about upsetting the
altar in the middle of it all).  Also, when a regular circle
dance is used to raise energy, (in which the participants
dance or simply move in a circle around the HP/HPS), it is
almost NEVER danced widdershins, because widdershins is
anti-sun-wise, and therefore seen to be the direction of
decrease and death.                             >>>
  For more information, I would advise you to find someone
involved in your local SCA kingdom and ask about their Dance
Guild.  The SCA dancers do a lot of research into Medieval
and folk dances, and may be able to give you more
information.
  Hope this is helpful.


                  Blessed Be,
                      PSC


----------------------------------------------------------------------
READ A MESSAGE                                                06/11/92
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ERIKA DIEHL (TFRC82B)
Subject: MAGICK
Sent on: 06/09 at 10:07 PM

aakk. no no no, im not related to digby, at least if i am i dont know
about it. maybe i should ask him, eh? oh dear, you know i would love
to write more on that bb but i dont remember where it is!! pray tell??
i love your name..



                   erika the laughing one

or the elfin chick as everyone HERE says



PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/20/92        0:02 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/16  1:24 PM

TO:      ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
FROM:    MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

Andy

This is really remarkable.  In most of the initiatory
societies that I have studied the alter is at the center of
the circle.  In Wicca, there is a cauldron at the center of
the circle, and they do a spiral dance around it.  Oddly,
the altar stands outside of the circle.  What do you think
it is that this cauldron symbolizes to them?  Is this
another case of the Goddess unveiled?  The prayer circle
figures prominently in the rituals of Mormonism.  Church
scholars trace the tradition back to the circle dance of the
Apostles.  There is plenty of documentation if anyone is
interested.  I've been looking for years for some parallels
between Wicca and Mormonism.  Have I finally found what I
was looking for?

dizzy
                                        proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/17/92        9:08 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/17  2:17 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    CYNTHIA HUSTED   (CHFB57B)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

Proclus,
   YES!  I would deffinitely be interrested in any
documentation linking Wicca and Mormonism.  I am not a
Mormon, nor a Wiccan exactly, but I do have good use for the
information - It's a looong story.  Suffice it to say I know
a Morman who will not step into my house because she thinks
I'm " a witch"          Sincerely ,       Cynthia


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/17/92        9:19 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/17  4:42 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    LUCINDA CHAPMAN   (JWRJ68A)
SUBJECT: SPIRAL DANCE

"A Witch is a 'shaper', a creator who bends the unseen into
form, and so becomes one of the Wise, one whose life is
infused with magic.
Witchcraft has always been a religion poetry, not theology.
The myths, legends, and teachings are recognised as
metaphors for 'that-Which-Cannot-be-told', the absolute
reality oru limited minds can never be explained-
only felt or intuited."



PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/19/92       11:41 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/18 11:17 AM

TO:      LUCINDA CHAPMAN   (JWRJ68A)
FROM:    MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
SUBJECT: SPIRAL DANCE

Lucinda

"A Witch is a 'shaper', a creator who bends the unseen into
form."  Isn't that also a definition of God-dess?  The
reason I ask is that it is an apt definition of the Mormon
God. One of the purposes of the Mormon temple rituals is to
help you to eventually become a Maker yourself.  The ritual
includes a "prayer circle".  Scholars have found parallels
with the "sacred dance" of the apostles.  What do you think
of all of this?  If I am admitted to the Craft, may I become
a God-dess some day.

I know there are probably some in the Craft which would be
offended by this comparison.  No offense is intended.  I am
just trying to get some answers.

foolish little
                           proclus


 


-------------------------------------------------

Cynthia

You asked for it.  Any inquiry into this topic juxtaposes us into a "strange space, a strange world - unlike ours - a world above that opens before us when we enter into the round dance of the disciples, led by Jesus."  Clement, Bishop of Rome describes the rite;

"As the leader, the Bishop stands in the middle... [the women and men are assigned their places, north, south, east, and west around him].  Then all give each other the sign of peace.  Next, when absolute silence is established, the deacon says: 'Let your hearts be to heaven.  If anyone has any hesitation or mental reservations let him make it known...'"

An antiphonal prayer follows with the people in the circle repeating the words of the Bishop.  This operation is performed in front of a veil.

The Gospel of Bartholemew describes a similar rite, but this time Mary stands at the center of the circle.  It seems that the apostles were seeking wisdom concerning the virgin birth.  She stood there and "raised her hands to heaven" and "spoke in an unknown tongue".

The earliest texts describe a dance associated with the rite.  One text even states, "He that danceth not knoweth not what is being done."  This attitude is by no means universal though.  The text goes on to say, "See yourself in me who am speaking. and when you have seen what I do, keep silence about my mysteries."

This dance mirrors the dance of the angels in their adoration of God.  Philo tells us that the initiate "moves in the circuit of heaven, and is born around in a circle with the dances of the planets and stars in accordance with the laws of perfect music." - the music of the spheres.

Bible readers should check Matthew 11:6-7.  

My info comes mainly from three sources;  STRANGERS IN PARADOX by Margaret & Paul Toscano,  The Early Christian Prayer Circle by Hugh Nibley, and Latter-day Saint Prayer Circles by D. Michael Quinn.  STRANGERS is a book from Signature Press in Salt Lake City. The last two refs are articles that I got in XeroX form from St. Andrew.  Only he can give you the publishing info.

There is much much more that I could write about this.

But I'm getting too dizzy!

proclus
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/19/92       11:39 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/15  7:10 PM

TO:      ALL
FROM:    LUCINDA CHAPMAN   (JWRJ68A)
SUBJECT: SPIRAL DANCE

"In the Craft, all people are seen as manifest Gods, and
differences in color, race, and customs are welcomed as
signs of the myriad beauty of the Goddess."


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/19/92       11:41 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/18  9:04 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    DOMI O'BRIEN   (VMKP97A)
SUBJECT: SPIRAL DANCE

Why do you think some circles anoint everyone entering the
circle and greet the entrants with "Thou Art God/ess"? My
young sons, however, hated this when they were small-- both
were slender creatures with long full hair, and in strange
circles they often got greeted as Goddess, not God. Since
they hit their teens it doesn't happen anymore....
                                                  Domi


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/19/92       11:43 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       VMKP97A
SUBJECT:  SPIRAL DANCE
DATE:     06/19/1992


Domi

As usual, I loved your post!  Do you think that this
anointing is common in the context of the circle dance?  I
found it interesting since there is a similar ordinance in
historical Mormonism.  The rite is no longer used.  Members
of the earliest prayer circle were known as "the anointed
quorum".  They thought themselves kings and queens, priests
and priestesses, gods and goddesses...  Do you want to hear
more about this?

consort

proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/19/92       11:44 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/19  3:30 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    LUCINDA CHAPMAN   (JWRJ68A)
SUBJECT: SPIRAL DANCE

The comparasion is almost inexcapable, as most of
Christainity was stolden from the original Pagans. Quakes
have a saying- All Good people are of the same religion, and
death will reveal our sameness to us.
The path a person is on is usually the right one for them.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/20/92        0:00 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/18  9:18 AM

TO:      KERRY SHIRTS   (CWXH30A)
FROM:    MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-GODDESS/MOTHR

Mormon theology may imply that the Holy Ghost encompasses
male and female counterparts, just like the other members of
the Godhead.  Frankly, I can't see why Nibley and others are
so shocked by the idea of a female Holy Ghost.  Mrs. Spirit
is just as valid an idea as Mrs. God.
biogram
       proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/20/92        0:00 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/19  3:05 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    MELISSA WUNDERLY   (GKBD00B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-GODDESS/MOTHR

I find the idea of the Godhead being a family perfectly
romantic. It makes fantastic sense.

Hopelessly and Incurably, Melissa


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/20/92        0:12 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/19  3:34 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    CYNTHIA HUSTED   (CHFB57B)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

Proclus,
    Thank you so very much for both the info and the book
refferences - You've done Alot of research.  I will keep
checking back to see if you write any more on this topic.
This is a great help.
                            Thanks again,
                                               Cynthia


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/23/92        2:10 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/20 10:04 AM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

Proclus,
   I see you've been busy.  Before I proceed, I heard a
nasty rumor that I wanted to check out.  I heard that you
were Aleister Crowley in your previous incarnation.  As we
all know , Uncle Al dabbled in homosexuality and he also
liked to shave his head.  Did these two currents get crossed
on the astral plane, leaving you with a strange urge to
shave your legs?  Just wondering...and hoping your wife has
forgiven me for what I did at the party...

   To business:  You only covered the pagan half of the
territory and left the Mormon half begging.  From about 1844
until just a few decades ago, small groups of Mormons
participated in "prayer circles."  These prayer circles were
modeled after the prayer circles that are still held as
part of the Temple Ceremony.

   The Temple prayer circle works like this:  A small number
of people gather at an alter, in front of the veil of the
temple.  They then exchange the signs and tokens that are
part of the Temple Ceremony.  After this, they address God,
and are lead in a prayer, the group repeating in unison what
is said by the prayer leader.  There is more to it than
this, but being the good little Mormon that I am, I am not
allowed to divulge it.

   You accuse me of having sources, Proclus.  Very well.
Both Quinn Nibley's articles come from Vol 19 #1
{FALL 1978} BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY STUDIES.  The Nibley
article is re-printed in MORMONISM AND EARLY CHRISTIANITY
{Vol 4, collected works of Hugh Nibley, Deseret Book, 1987}.

   If there is anybody out there who just cannot live
without these articles and cannot get hold of them {vol19,
#1, BYU Studies is a real bear to find.  Trust me....}, send
me an address and I will see what I can do.

   Oh yeah.  And STRANGERS IN PARADOX is a real scream.  If
you want to see just how strange the "lunatic fringe" of
Mormonism is, this is your book.  The book is almost {dare I
say it} a blueprint for New Age Mormonism.     Scary.

                                      \/ St Andrew
                                      /\ the dogmaphobe.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/23/92        2:10 AM

PS  I will soon be reading DRAWING DOWN THE MOON, Proclus.
It may be a better source for you than SPIRAL DANCE.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/23/92        2:12 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/20  8:50 PM

TO:      ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
FROM:    SCOTT JOHNSON   (NMFR07A)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

  St. Dogmaphobe, I bought Strangers in Paradox in a Gay
bookstore on Castro St. in San Francisco a year ago. What I
read on the plane back to L.A. seemed to be just the
medicine the LDS needs. I didn't get to read that much,
though because the person sitting next to me noticed the
book and that led to a discussion of Magick that burned the
ears of the people sitting around us.                scott.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/23/92        2:13 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/21 12:41 PM

TO:      SCOTT JOHNSON   (NMFR07A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MAGICK

You found STRANGERS IN PARADOX in a gay bookstore?
Really????

My jaw has dropped to the keyboard, and my eyes have broken
out in a wide grin!  Wow!  Neat-o!!!!

I agree that the Mormon Church needs some kind of a good
swift kick in the back-side, but the Toscanos and their
ideas would be a bit much for the mainstream Mormon.  We'll
have to start them off on something a bit lighter, like
Michael Quinn's book,  EARLY MORMONISM AND THE MAGICAL WORLD
VIEW {no longer in print, check your library}.

Did you know that Joseph Smith, like many Americans of his
time, practiced folk magic?  When he was killed, he had a
"Jupiter Talisman" on his person.  His brother Hyram had a
dagger with markings etched into it that were consistant
with the practice of ceremonial magick.               >>>>>
Oliver Cowdery, who was a co-founder of the Mormon church,
was a Rodsman {worked a divining rod}.  His talent with the
Rod is the "pngt of Aaron" refered to in DOCTRINE AND
COVENANTS 8:7.  {The DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS is a book of
Mormon scripture consisting of revelation and divine
instruction given to Joseph Smith}

The typical Mormon knows little of these things, and would
deny their truth if she heard them.  But Mike and I are not
{thank Goddess} typical Mormons.  Grin.       \/ St Andrew,
                                              /\ blasphemer.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/23/92        2:40 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/20  3:57 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: SPIRAL DANCE

Proclus,
   I like the similarities between the "Washing and
Annointing" that precedes the Mormon temple endowment and
the Wiccan "Five Fold Kiss."  Methinks us Mormons are more
pagan than we ever imagined....
                                            \/ St Andrew,
                                            /\ puckering.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service         08/09/92         3:49 PM

ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       ALL
SUBJECT:  SPIRAL DANCE
DATE:     08/09/1992


Lucinda,

Thanx again for this wonderful subject which you have
started.  In practice, I am familiar with many of the
rituals that Starhawk recommends.  There is something that
is new to me though.  Her emphasis on closure is very
interesting.   Here is some of the material from pp 44-5;

"Also called grounding, earthing power is one of the basic
techniques of magic.  Power must be earthed every time it is
raised.  Otherwise, the force we feel as vitalizing energy
degenerates into nervous tension and irritability."

Also;

"People may move out of the circle at this time, but the
meeting must be formally ended before anyone goes home.
Meetings that dribble off at the end leave people without a
sense of closure and completion.  If magic has been worked,
the energy absorbed then tends to turn into anxiety and
irritation, instead of peace and vitality."

This may explain alot for me.  I have had an intuitive and
partial realization of this technique.  At the beginning of
a ritual, I typically close the door, light incense, and
ring a clear bell.  When it is over, I ring the bell again
before I open the door.  I have been known to post watchers
to assure that the door will not be opened before the
appointed time.  After any particularly powerful ritual I
feel full of love, ecstatic and invigorated.

Then, after a couple of hours have passed I feel like I have
been mauled by a giant four-year-old.  I act in an edgy and
irritable way.  This may be why some of my acquaintances
have held a dim view of my magickal practice.  After all,
they don't deal with the full of love, ecstatic and
invigorated magickian.  They have to face the edgy and
irritable burnout!

Starhawk's suggestions for closure are the best that I have
ever seen.  I only have one problem.  I just don't like the
idea of ending the magick.  I tried earthing the power and I
felt let down.  Is this the way it is supposed to be?  Am I
addicted to the charge?  I just want to take some of the
magick with me when the ritual is over.  Can I have my cake
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service         08/09/92         3:50 PM

and eat it too?

rug burn

proclus
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ps I loved some of her ideas on "power" too!


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service         12/14/92        11:33 PM

RELIGION
TOPIC:    LATTER-DAY SAINTS
TO:       DPNG73C
SUBJECT:  HEAVENLY MOTHER
DATE:     12/14/1992


laura

Forgive me for treading this hallowed ground.  The Brethren
have suggested that it is inappropriate to pray to Heavenly
Mother.  Who am I to say otherwise?  In fact, I am inclined
to agree.  Here is the analogy.  Why would you sing to a
traffic meter?  What purpose would it serve?  I have
suggested before that interaction with the Mormon Goddess is
possible on a WIDE variety of levels.  Why should we be
limited to prayer?  There is much more that we could do
without ever kneeling.  Let's do it!

The idea that She is somehow more distant from us than God
or that He is protecting Her is the purest form of
sentimental, unscriptural bunk.  In fact, there is nothing
"official" to be known about Her.  Does this mean She is
unknown?  No, of course not!  Does this mean She is not
pertinant to our salvation?  Don't even try that one on me.

I prefer this line of bunk.  Talk about Her.  She is your
model.  Do what She does.  Let's try to learn as much as we
can about Her right now.  Remember, this is a gospel of
revelation.

God's Wife is your spiritual Parent.
She loves you very much!

proclus
                              ps>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Change is NOT top down.  If that were true, our most
spiritually advanced members would have all the revelations,
nothing witheld.  God responds to the changes we make as a
people.  The only thing that is top down in the Church is
authority.  We will have revelations about Mrs. God when we
deserve it.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service         12/21/92         5:15 PM

         RELIGION
TOPIC:   LATTER-DAY SAINTS
TIME:    12/20  8:59 PM

TO:      ALL
FROM:    DEBRA LIENING   (WSPK04A)
SUBJECT: HEAVENLY MOTHER

Patricia Holland from " One Thing Needful - Becoming Women
of Greater Faith in Christ ", Oct '87 Ensign:  I testify
that you are holy - that divinity is abiding within you
waiting to be uncovered - to be unleashed & magnified &
demonstrated. I have heard it said by some that the
reason women in the Church struggle to know themselves is
because they don't have a divine female role model. But we
do. We believe we have a mother in heaven. May I quote from
Pres. Spencer W. Kimball in a general conference address:
"When we sing that doctrinal hymn...'O My Father,' we get a
sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the
restrained, queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and
knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us
here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be
less?"  I have never questioned why our mother in heaven
seems veiled to us, for I believe the Lord has his reasons
for revealing as little as he has on that subject.  >>>
Furthermore, I believe we know much more about our eternal
nature than we think we do; and it is our sacred obligation
to express our knowledge, to teach it to our young sisters &
daughters, and in so doing to strengthen their faith & help
them thru the counterfeit confusions of these difficult
latter days. The Lord has not placed us in this lone &
dreary world without a blueprint...In D&C 52, we read..."I
will give unto you a pattern in all things, that ye may not
be deceived." He certainly includes women in that promise.
She goes on to mention patterns found in our scriptures and
in the temple - types & shadows for us, prefigurations
of our own mortal joys & sorrows.

Examination of these patterns has been a comfort to me - and
something I have enjoyed sharing with those I come in
contact with.
                        Love & blessings,
                              Debra in MI
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