Quinn's New Book1 ================= PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 7:04 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 12:30 PM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM When was the story dated? I haven't seen the article in our local press. The recent signature book, 'Women and Authority - re-emerging Mormon Feminism,' dedited by Maxine Hanks has the essay by Quinn and it is quite interesting. danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 7:10 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 4:30 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Oh, you WOULD make me go dig through the papers! All right. It's an Associated Press report by one Vern Anderson, and the Chicago Tribune entitled it, "Book says original Mormon doctrine backed women priests." D. Michael Quinn (identified only as "a Mormon" who has written "a new book about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints") says, "there is compelling documentary evidence that Smith gave women priesthood power in the temple 'endowment' ritual in which women are anointed to be- come queens and priestesses. 'It's an explosive issue,' Quinn said, particularly at a time when church leaders face growing pressure from Mormon feminists [isn't that an oxy- moron?] for a more active role in a faith dominated by its male priesthood...Quinn said there is no evidence a woman ever was ordained to a specific priesthood office...but in the early church there was a clear distinction between priesthood power--available to women in the temple endowment --and priesthood office...It wasn't until the 20th century that Mormon leaders completely backed away from the idea that women held the priesthood, Quinn said. In doing so, they relied on official histories that deleted evidence or changed meanings in 'documents which were detailed and ex- plicit in their original form.'" NOW do you have any thoughts/comments to share with the class? PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 7:12 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 5:56 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: WARREN LATHE III (KFVW57A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Hey, I know Maxine Hanks!!!! It has to be the same person!! We were both early members and "founders" of that lefist BYU organization Response (peace and human rights organization) in 1983 and 84. She was working as a writer and editor at BYU and a "feminist" and self described active inactive Mormon. I liked her alot even though we were at times on different poles of our organization's "ideology". I was considered the conservative who thought that education was the purpose of our organization, she was the liberal that thought action (like prayer virgils, protests, civil disobedience) was the purpose. But that is exaggerating the difference a bit. Anyway, it has to be the same person! I would love to talk to her again. Maybe I should get that book and find an address. Sorry, just thinking out loud. You wouldn't happen to have an address would you? ***Trey PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 7:15 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 5:59 PM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: JAMES PETERSEN (XWWG12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Bryan, what fun! This information can be found in a book "The Women of Nauvoo" by Holztapfel. When the N. Temple was completed, Joseph selected about 60 people [24 married couples and 12 singles] to receive their endowments. Emma was charged with providing the endowments for the women, and some of the endowments were done in the Smith residence. Joseph was apparently afraid of the pending attempt on his life, and the desire of anti-Mormon sentiment which hoped that his death would extinguis the religious movement. These sixy people were know as the "Quorum of the Annointed." It was then their job to endow as many others as possible. [Aside: when washing, annointings and sealings are done in the temples today, women temple workers perform these ordinances for the women--that has always raised the interesting question of whether these women temple workers have the "priesthood" in order to perform these ordinances--there are some interesting answers from lots of folks when you dig into this issue--my PERSONAL belief is that they certainly do exercise priesthood authority regarding these ordinances.] Anti-LDS people heard about the "quorum of the Annointed" group. Joseph instructed them to remove and bury or destroy their garments because he was afraid that the mobs would look for those with garments, and torture or kill them in an attempt to "behead" the church. That is also one reason Joseph did not have his garments on when he was killed--he didn't want to mobs to discover them, and then go looking for others who wore them--with the intent to kill them. After Joseph's murder, Brigham accelerated the temple work. As soon as someone had their endowments, they were sent away so as to scatter the endowed members of the church and make it impossible for the mobs to destroy the leaders and other faithful members. The Quorum of the Annointed would often meet in the store on Saturday night, where they would make garments and temple clothing, sing hymns, and have testimony meetings. So, my personal conclusion is that there have been times when women have had priesthood powers for specific reasons involving temple ordinances, and there may still be such powers granted for specific temple purposes today. I have heard the reasoning about why female temple workers don't have it, and those who hold that view are certainly free to express it and its reasons. PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 7:16 PM Thanks for the article. BTW, my wife detests me talking about women and the priesthood--oh well, there certainly is a lot of room for personal ideas in this church--despite what others might think. PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 8:13 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: JHCC40A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/23/1993 Bryan This thread is amazing. Bryan, I disagree with Trey on this one. This issue cuts to the core of the modern Church. Yet, all the Mormons are giving it positive press. Let me tell you, you could not possibly give too much info regarding it. I cannot tell you how astounded I was when Andy and I discovered this information last summer in STRANGERS IN PARADOX. Now that Quinn has gotten behind it, I guess the Toscano's were right. Well, we've been posting related info since last summer. If you want to run with this, I'm with you all the way. dance, dance, dance! proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 8:19 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: XWWG12A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/23/1993 James The Anointed Quorum was a prayer circle group. In the days of Joseph, these groups included women. There was no "to become such" delimiter on the temple blessings. Men and women were actually "anointed to be kings and queens, priests and priestesses", literally. It is difficult to avoid hyperbole when describing the blessings that flowed from these groups. I was getting ready to post this in PAGAN BOOTS, but interest seemed to be declining. You can read all about it in Quinn's article, "Latter-day Saint Prayer Circles", that is, if I don't post all of it myself immediately! spirit of Elijah proclus btw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, my wife also shrinks from discussions of this type. She considers the promises made to women to be very real, and very sacred. When I pointed out the magnitude of the promises made to women, and the feminine aspects of the endowment, she laughed at me and asked me why I had been sleeping through the ceremony all these years. She then unveiled the Goddess. I have never recovered from this experience. I hope I never do! PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 11:15 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 8:38 PM TO: WARREN LATHE III (KFVW57A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Trey, the back of the anthology states that Maxine is a free lance researcher, writer, and editor residing in SLC. She was previously employed by the Univ. of Utah, BYU, and the MTC. She serves on the advisory boards of the Assoc. of Utah Publishers, 'Network' magazine, and the Utah Historic Trails Consortium. She is a 1992 Research Fellow, Utah Humanities Council and is completing a degree in Women's Studies at the Univ. of Utah. Besides the introduction and editing she also contributed an article titled 'Sister Missionaries and Authority.' The book is a recent release from Signature and costs $19.95. I enjoyed the volume and I think that you may as well.... danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 11:18 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 9:32 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: JAMES PETERSEN (XWWG12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Michael, I'm wondering if the Annointed Quorum and the Quorum of the Annointed are two different groups? Need to look into that. The information I heard was that is was a specific group appointed by Joseph to preside over the disemination of the endowment. BTW, I'm sure you know, but Brigham Young held a number of prayer circles out in the open as they crossed the plains for the first time to SL. The brethren who were apostles and Brigham [don't know if any women came along] would go off to a nearby bluff, don their temple clothing, and pray in the prayer circle. Well, now all the anti's are probably just drooling as we post this stuff--thinking that we're certainly showing how foolish all this stuff is. Unfortunately, they seldom see beyond their negative agendas, and have little appreciation for the wonderful tapestry this all weaves. Like your stuff. Keep it up. Please, post away!! PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 11:21 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 10:00 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Tell me more! PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/23/93 11:21 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/23 10:00 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM AND, by the way...how do you find out if someone (like Mr. Quinn, for instance) has been or is in danger of being ex'd? PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:44 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 7:50 AM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: JAMES PETERSEN (XWWG12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Bryan, I think she thinks I'm "getting out in front" on the issue--and, as a convert from Methodism, she really doesn't care if she has the priesthood. She was glad to get away from the politics that were swarming into the Methodist church--and she kind of likes the LDS church just the way it is. PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:45 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 7:54 AM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: WARREN LATHE III (KFVW57A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Thank you very much Dan, Its her, and I am definately going to get the books and try to contact her. Sounds interesting and I would love to talk to her again. ***Trey PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:46 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 8:14 AM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: WARREN LATHE III (KFVW57A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Proclus, What?! Living here in the "cradle of the restoration" surely makes one miss out on all the goings on in "Zion"! So what is this all about then? Here in this distant stake of Zion we are in the dark as to what is explosive in Zion. I guess the shrapnel has hit here yet. I NEED to start subscribing to more LDS periodicals!! ***Trey PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:47 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 8:14 AM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: WARREN LATHE III (KFVW57A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Wait, I just remembered, you live in Boston don't you? How do you here of all these things? Am I living in a sheltered Ward? I really need to start getting out! ***Trey PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:48 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 8:25 AM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: MARK NICHOLS (DHFK98A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Being an "endowed" member of the LDS church myself, I fail to see what all the fuss is about. If there is anything new or startling here in your article., it went completely over my head... Sorry. PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:48 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 8:39 AM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: WARREN LATHE III (KFVW57A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Proclus, POST!! POST!! POST!! ***Trey PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:54 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 10:54 AM TO: BONNIE WRIGHT (FVNM12A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Professor Quinn begins by stating that for 150 yrs. Mormon women have performed sacred ordinances in the Church. Every person who has received the LDS temple endowment knows that women perform for other women the 'initiatory ordinances' of washing and anointing. Fewer know that LDS women also performed ordinances of healing from the 1840s until the 1940s. Yet every Mormon knows that men who perfom temple ordinances and healing ordinances must have the Melchizedek priesthood. Women are no exception. Quinn continues that two weeks after Joseph organized the Female Relief Society he announced his intention to confer the priesthood on women. On Mar. 30, 1842 he told them that 'the Society should move according to the ancient Priesthood' and that he was 'going to make of this Society a kingdom of priests as in Enoch's day - as in Paul's day.' In printing the original minutes of the prophet's talk after his death, the official History of the Church omitted Joseph's first use of the word 'Society' and changed the second 'Society' to 'Church.' These two alterations according to Quinn changed the entire meaning of Joseph's original statement. More recently in April of 1992, President of the Seventy Loren C. Dunn removed even these diminished statements from a display in the LDS Museum of Church History and Art saying he could not justify them to his superiors (SL Tribune 11 Apr. 1992, A-10) On April 28, 1842, Joseph returned to this subject and told the women of the Society that 'the keys of the kingdom are about to be given to them that they may be able to detect everything false, as well as to the Elders.' The keys 'to detect everything false' referred to the signs and tokens used in the 'true order of prayer,' still practiced in LDS temples. Then Joseph said, 'I now turn the key to you in the name of God, and this society shall rejoice, and knowledge and intelligence shall flow down from this time.' For 19th century LDS women, Joseph's words were prophecy and inspiration to advance spiritually, intellectually, socially professionally, and politically. Mormon women did not request priesthood - Joseph would soon confer it on them as part of the restoration of the gospel. His private journal, called the Book of the Law of the Lord, specified the priesthood promise in his instructions to the women on Ap. 28, 1842: 'gave a lecture on the pries[t]hood shewing [sic] how the Sisters would come in possession of the privilegs & blessings & pngts of the PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:54 PM priesthoood & that signs should follow them. such as healing the sick casting out devils &c. & that they might attain unto these blessings. by a virtuous life & conversation & diligence in keeping all the commandments.' Joseph clearly intended that Mormon women in 1842 understand their healings were to be 'pngts of the priesthood,' not simply ministrations of faith. if you would like I will continue.... danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:58 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 12:37 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: MELISSA GATES (DWRH70C) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Yes, let's hear more from the Quinn article. all ears... PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 5:59 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 1:28 PM TO: MELISSA GATES (DWRH70C) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Continuing, Professor Quinn says that Aposlte Oaks observed in a 1992 general conference talk that, 'No priesthood keys were delivered to the Relief Society. Keys are conferred on individuals, not organizations.' The first Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve as organizations are not even exempt from the limitation he [Oaks] describes for the Relief Society. Elder Oaks noted that 'priesthood keys were delivered to the MEMBERS of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, not to any organizations.' In a footnote to this passage, Quinn states that in quoting from the Nauvoo Relief Society minutes, Elder Oaks does not cite Joseph's promise "to make of this Society a 'kingdom of priests' as in Enoch's day." On the same page, Elder Oaks also describes Joseph's instructions about women, 'laying on hands to bless one another' as though this referred to the initiatory ordinances of the endowment without acknowledging that healing was the actual context of the prophet's remarks. Then with no mention that Mormon women performed healing ordinances from the 1840s to the 1940s, Elder Oaks continues: "During the century that followed, as temples became accessible to most members, 'proper order' required that these and other sacred practices be confined within those temples." (Ensign 22, May 1992). Quinn charitably concludes that Elder Oaks remarks were unintentional mistakes in the use of historical evidence. Now according to Quinn, the conferral of priesthood on INDIVIDUAL women occurred through what Joseph and associates called the 'Holy Order' or 'Anointed Quorum' (men and women who had received the priesthood endowment). On May 4, 1842, six days after his remarks to the Relief Society, Joseph introduced nine men to the endowment. The following year, on July 28, 1843, Presiding Patriarch Hyrum Smith, an original member of the Holy Order, blessed on Leonora Cannon Taylor: "You shall be blesst [sic] with your portion of the Priesthood which belongeth to you, that you may be set apart for your Anointing and your induement [endowment].' Two months earlier Joseph and his wife Emma were the first couple to be 'sealed' in marriage for time and eternity on May 28, 1843. Then in September, Hyrum the Presiding Patriarch blessed one Olive G. Frost, one of Joseph's plural wives, that 'you shall be blessed with a knowledge of the mysteries of God as well as the fullness of the Priesthood.' The men who received the Holy Order endowment in 1842 did PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:00 PM not constitute a fully organized 'quorum' until a woman was initiated in 1843. At 7 p.m. on Sept. 28 1843, Joseph was 'by common consent and unanimous vote chosen president of the Quorum' by eleven other previously endowed men. Next, Emma became the first woman to receive priesthood and its fullness. In a footnote citation, Quinn states that the 'Meetings of anointed Quorum Journalizings' show that in six meeting from May 26 to the morning of Sept 28, 1843 the endowed men were consistently called a 'Council.' This document's first refernce to 'Quorum' is for the evening meeting on Sept. 28. danny.... PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:05 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 2:26 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM As newly sustained president of the Anointed Quorum, Joseph administered the initiatory ordinances and priesthood endowment to his wife in an upper room of the Nauvoo Mansion The record of minutes shows that at this same meeting, Joseph and Emma also became the first couple to receive the 'second anointing' or 'fullness of the priesthood.' By this ceremony they were each 'annointed & ordained to the highest & holiest order of the priesthood.' Later church historians in Utah deleted Emma's name from the 1843 description of the prophet's 'second Anointing of the Highest & Holiest order.' However, church historians were more direct about the second anointing for Hyrum and Mary Fielding Smith. Apostle and Church Historian Wilford Woodruff specifically called the ordinance a 'second anointing,' and the History of the Church describes the ordinace as: 'My brother Hyrum and his wife were blessed ordained and anointed.' Even in the 19th century church publications usually called the second anointing by such euphemisms as 'fullness of the priesthood,' 'higher ordinances,' 'higher blessings,' or 'second blessings.' However, LDS publications in both the 19th and 20th centuries sometimes identified the ordinances by its actual name: second anointing. Of the relationship between the endowment's initiatory anointing and the second anointing, Heber Kimball explained: 'You have been anointed to be kings and priests [or queens and priestesses], but you have not been ordained to it yet, and you have got to get it by being faithful.' In the second anointing, the husband and wife are ordained 'King and Queen, Priest and Priestess to the Most high God for Time and through out all Eternity.' Thus Emma began the fulfillment of the prophet's promise to make the Relief Society 'a kingdom of priests.' She was anointed to become a 'queen and priestess' in the initiatory ordinance of the endowment and was ordained to the fulness of those offices by the second anointing. First counselor Sidney Rigdon later (1868) commented on this event: 'Emma was the one to whom the female priesthood was first given.' A common misunderstanding claims that women receive priesthood only through temple marriage or through the second anointing - both of which a husband and wife must receive together. However, such was not the view expressed by many of the Anointed Quorum's original members, who learned about the endowment directly from Joseph Smith. Brigham Young's 1843 diary associated the endowment of PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:05 PM women with receiving priesthood. On Oct. 29, 1843, he noted that Thirza Cahoon, Lois Cutler, and Phebe Woodworth were 'taken into the order of the priesthood.' That was the day day those three women individually received their endowments. They did not join with their husbands to receive the second anointing until Nov. 12 & 15 respectively When his own wife received the endowment on Nov. 1, 1843, Brigham wrote: 'Mary Young admitted in to the highest orderer [order of] Preasthood [sic].' She did not receive the second anointing with Brigham until three weeks later.Quinn's New Book2 ================= PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:11 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 3:08 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM I assume the answer is yes.... On Feb. 3, 1844, William Clayton's diary noted that he 'was permitted to the ordinance of washing and anointing, and was received into the Quorum of Priesthood.' On that same occasion Jane Bicknell Young was also endowed and received 'into the Quorum of the Priesthood.' The prophet's secretary later noted: 'All the first quorum with one or two exceptions were present both male and female.' Joseph Smith's uncle John Smith subsequently pronounced a patriarchal blessin on Maria Turnbow which specified that it was through the endowment ceremony that a woman receives the priesthood: 'Thou shalt have an Endowment in the Lord's house [and] be clothed with the Power of the Holy Priesthood [to] be able to redeem thy fathers house.' Bathsheba W. Bibler Smith shared this view. She entered Joseph's Anointed Quorum in Dec. 1843. "I have always been pleased that I had my endowments when the Prophet lived. He taught us the true order of prayer. I never like to hear a sermon without hearing sonething of the Prophet, for he gave us everything, every order of the priesthood. He said he had given the sisters instructions that they could administer to the sick and he wanted to make us, as the women were in Paul's day, 'A kingdom of priestesses.'" In Feb. 1844 stake patriarch John Smith told an LDS woman named Louisa Jackson that she had a right to priesthood from her birth. "Thou art of the blood of Abraham thru the Loins of Manasseh & lawful heir to the Priesthood. Jackson was not among the elite Mormon women who received the endowment before the opening of the Nauvoo Temple in Dec. 1845. Referring to her eventual sealing and second anointing, the patriarch added that Jackson 'shall possess it [priesthood] in common with thy companion.' Jackson's blessing showed that any Mormon woman had a birthright to priesthood which depended on no man. John Smith's blessings to Maria Turnbow and Louisa Jackson clearly show that a Mormon woman receives the priesthood for herself through the endowment. A Mormon woman and a Mormon man recieve the higher priesthood blessings only as a couple through the sealing of marriage and through the second anointing (or 'fullness). As Apostle Talmage wrote: 'True, ther are certain of the higher ordinances to which an unmarried woman cannot be admitted, but the rule is equally in force as to a bachelor.' (House of the Lord, p.94). PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:11 PM Uncle John Smith's church standing and experience make it difficult to regard him as misinformed when he affirmed that there is a female birthright to priesthood. A special counselor in the First Presidency since 1837, John Smith became a member of the Anointed Quorum on Spt 28, 1843, the same day his nephew Joseph received the second annointing. From then until he blessed Louisa Jackson, John Smith received four months of private instructions from the prophet about the Holy Order of the Priesthood during the frequent meetings of the Anointed Quorum. danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:14 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 3:55 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM John Smith also described the ancient dimension of this female birthright to priesthood. In his blessing to Carolin Cottam in Mar. 1853, he referred to the 'Priesthood which Abraham sealed upon his daughters.' He also blessed Elizabeth Bean in May 1953: 'I seal upon you all the blessings of Abraham, Isacc, and Jaboc; and all the priesthood that was sealed upon the daughters of Joseph in the land of Egypt.' He made a similar statment in another female blessing in Nov. 1853. According to John Smith, a female priesthood contiued throughout the centuries until the sojourn of the 12 tribes in Egypt. According to 1st counselor Heber Kimball in 1857, Jewish women continued to have the priesthood in the early Christian era. 'Was every woman qualified to raise that child [Jesus]? No. You will find that Mary was of the Royal Priesthood, which is after the order of God. Like her ancestors, Mary of Nazareth alo held the 'Royal Priesthood' which is now called Melchizedek. On Dec. 7, 1845 Kimball had recorded the names of 23 men and 19 women who 'are members of the Holy Order of the Holy Presthood [sic] having Recieved [sic] it in the Life time of Joseph and Hirum, the Prophets.' Of these 19 women, 3 had not yet received the second anointing. In the temple a week later, Kimball's diary noted that Brigham Young 'appointed W.W. Phelps and P.P. Pratt to instruct the brethren and sisters more fully into the nature and importance of the blessings and powers of the Holy Priesthood which they had received.' Kimball's observations, according to Quinn, that women received the priesthood through the endowment are significant because he usually expressed misogynous views. (see On the Potter's Wheel, p. 174 & Heber C. Kimball Mormon Patriarch and Pioneer p. 234-36). Yet another member of Joseph Smith's Anointed Quorom, Joseph Young, also affirmed that LDS women received the Melchizedek priesthood when they were endowed and not through the sealing or second anointing with their husbands. Young in a blessing to Zina Young Card in 1878 said: 'These blessings are yours, the blessings and power according to the holy Melchizedek Priesthood you received in your Endowments, and you shall have them.' Young had been senior president of the First Council of Seventy since 1837 and an ordained patriarch since 1873. Zina was his niece and Brigham Young's daughter. In 1877, Edward Tullidge's 'Women of Mormondom' reflected the view expressed by general PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:14 PM authorities for 35 years: 'The Mormon women, as well as men, hold the priesthood.' Several other early LDS general authorities held similar views about women and priesthood. However, they were more tentative than Joseph and those who received the prophet's personal instruction about the endowment. However, Joseph Smith's 1842 promise, Hyrum Smith's patriarchal blessings in 1843, Brigham Young's 1843 diary, William Clayton's 1844-45 diary, Heber Kimball's 1845 diary, and patriarchal blessings by John Smith from 1844 on and by Joseph Young in 1878 all show that LDS women receive the Melchizedek priesthood through the endowment alone.... there is quite a bit more... danny & his tired fingers PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:20 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: FVNM12A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/24/1993 Bonnie I'm sending a note to Xandy about this thread right now. the Dalin Oakes committee of disinformation proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 6:20 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 5:17 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: BONNIE WRIGHT (FVNM12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Dan: By the time I read your post, you had gone on without me, and have posted more concerning this subject. Sort of a time warp here... Where is Andy? He likes things of this nature? bonnie ------------ WRITE A MESSAGE 01/24/93 --------- SEND TO: FKSP88A SUBJECT: Second Anointing Andy You'ld better pop over to Bryan's ANTI MORMONISM subject and look at a thread on Quinn's new book. Dan just unloaded the best of a recent article by Quinn too. Everything is in the open now. proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:44 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 8:09 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: ANDREW MCGUIRE (FKSP88A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Proclus et al, I'm here. Mike, I think that Quinn has been on this women/priesthood thing longer than Toscano. It's just that Quinn had his position at BYU to think about, so he left it to others [Toscano] to make the truly obnoxious moves. But now that Quinn has cut himself loose from "The Zoo" he has become bolder. BTW, you will love the title of Quinn's offering in the book WOMEN AND AUTHORITY. "Mormon Women Have Had The Priesthood Since 1843." No beating around the bush there! Another good one is "Put On Your Strength O Daughters of Zion: Claiming Priesthood and Knowing the Mother" by Margaret Merrel Toscano. Ooooh. I get ** woozy ** just thinking about it! Want a copy of the book Mike?? \/ Andrew <
> /\ PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:45 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 9:13 PM TO: ANDREW MCGUIRE (FKSP88A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Hi Andy, how's the snow? So you have the book and I have it as well...tell me what do you think of that article on page 683 about neo-nazi mormon traffic engineers and their attitude toward women as being so much back fill? Hard to imagine you know who being so infamous at such an early age.... danny....darting about PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:47 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 9:49 PM TO: MARK NICHOLS (DHFK98A) FROM: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Well, it was new to me, Mark. That is why I sought elucid- ation here, at the keyboards of the Righteous Enlightened. bryan // poor ignorant gentile PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:48 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 9:56 PM TO: ANDREW MCGUIRE (FKSP88A) FROM: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Can you or Dan tell me when Mormon women got booted (or whatever) out of the priesthood? This is fascinating! PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:49 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 4:37 PM TO: ALL FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Continuing along with Quinn and by the way Proclus, Margaret Toscano's essay 'Put on Your Strength O Daughters of Zion: Claiming Priesthood and Knowing the Mother' immediately follows the Quinn article but I'm unsure as to whether to attach any real importance to the sequence...perhaps Trey can ask Maxine Hanks about that... >>>> Quinn notes that the local patriarchs in pioneer Utah also referred to women's priesthood rights. He gives an example from Charles W. Hyde, a stake president and last mand admitted to the Nauvoo Quorum, blessing and another from patriarch Ola N. Liljenquist. The latter is interestin since it indicated that this birhtright is by premortal foreordination. According to Quinn Liljenquist made explicit what is implied in Mormon theology - that women were also forechosen to priesthood authority before birth. Mormon scripture's most detailed view of the premortal world did not differentiate between men and women in the forechoosing to authority - Abraham 3:22-23...females are among 'all' God's intelligences and spirits who were noble, good, and forechosen (or foreordained) to be leaders and to receive authority. Currently for males this foreordination to authority is fulfilled in LDS priesthood office. For females this foreordination is fuliflled in their receiving the priesthood endowment and opportunities for church service. For those who marshal other proof texts that women do not hold priesthood separate from their husbands Quinn cites a 1845 sermon from Brigham Young: they [LDS women] 'have no right to meddle in the affairs of the Kingdom of God. Outside the pale of this they have a right to meddle because many of them are more sagacious & shrewd & more competent [than men] to attend to things of financial affairs.' but 'they never can hold the keys of Priesthood apart from their husbands.' Quinn avers that this earliest limitation on a woman's ecclesiatical authority did not deny that endowed women receive a conferral of Melchizedek priesthood. Instead Young first denies that women have any claim to 'administrative authority' within the church and secondly a women cannot hold the keys of the Priesthood by herself, for the reason that this right of presidency comes to women only through the second anointing. These early statements by Young were not denials that PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:49 PM Mormon women receive priesthood through the endowment but rather the matter seems to hinge on women receiving the KEYS of presidency with their husbands through the second anointing. This 'fullness of priesthood' confers on women the right to rule and reign as eternal queens and preistesses. danny ... more later PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:53 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 5:19 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Skipping along here we read that as in Brigham's 1845 statement, church administrative powere is the real context for all subsequent denials that women have priesthood. If women have priesthood, the often unexpressed fear goes, they might challenge the administrative powers of males who have been ordainded deacons, teachers, etc. Conversely the argument is that since women have not been ordained to one of those offices, they do not have priesthood. First Presidency counselor Charles W. Penrose made this argument specific in 1921: "Sisters have said to me sometimes, 'But I hold the Priesthood with my husband.' 'Well,' I asked, 'what office do you hold in the Priesthood.' Then they could not say much more. The sisters are not ordained to any office in the Priesthood." However, such reasoning ignores Joseph Smith's earliest revelation defining the priesthood in D&C 84. Ordained offices are not the priesthood but only 'appendages' to the priesthood. According to an 1835 revelation, even the apostleship is an appendage to the Melchizedek priesthood, for 'all other authorities or offices in the church are appendages to this priesthood' (107:5). Priesthood then exists independently of church offices but church offices are appendages whcih cannot exist without the priesthood. As Church president J.F. Smith told general conference, 'If an Apostle has any authority at all, he derives if from the Melchisedek Priesthood...all the offices in the Church are simply appendages to the Melchisedek Priesthood, and grow out of it.' A women does not need an appendage or church office to have priesthood. According to Joseph's teachings to the Relief Society and to the Anointed Quorum, a woman receives Melchizedek priesthood when she receives the endowment. The confusion of priesthood office with priesthood has characterized many contemporary discussions of women and priesthood according to Quinn. However, just as counselors in the First Presidency were 'ordained' by Joseph, Emmas was 'ordained to expound the Scriptures,' and her counselors were ordained to preside over the Nauvoo Relief Society. In the 19th century the word 'ordain' was also used for appointing persons to proselyting missions and to heal. However, Quinn states that he has found no evidence that Mormon men ever ordained a woman to a specific priesthood office of the church. Thus the documents and leaders of early Mormonism affirm PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 10:53 PM that women receive priesthood through the endowment. New revelation would only confirm this reality no create it. However, unaware of the female priesthood theology in Joseph's Anointed Quorum, current LDS presidents and apostles regard new revelation as necessary to change a 20th century definition that is now regarded as doctrinal. For example, Pres. Spencer Kimball announced in June 1978: 'We pray to God to reveal hsi mind and we always will, but we don't expect any revelation regarding women and the priesthood.' This was just after his announcement of the revelation authorizing the priesthood to men of black African descent.... danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:00 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: MWRS12A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/24/1993 Dan That June'78 statement by President Kimball was also one month after prayer circle groups were finally and completely banned within the Church. I don't think it is settled at all that the Brethen were unaware of these doctrines or their implications for patriarchal authority. miffed proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:08 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: MWRS12A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/24/1993 Dan I think it is tragic that the women of the Church must now go skulking about, hiding their majesty. This is obviously not what Joseph intended. It is easy to understand why the Toscanos seem so forlorn. saddened proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:13 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: KFVW57A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/24/1993 ***Trey I have to give the credit to Andy for making this information available to me so early. Every paper and book that I quote was sent to me by him. As for Andy, he lives in the heart Gomorrah, the shadow of Bigamy Young University. What more can I say? Thanx Andy. Well, I have to take some credit too. I'm the one that shot Wilson, Leary, and Crowley in Andy's direction. Quite a pair aren't we? It also seems that my new ward is not all that sheltered. I know the people that operate the New England journal for Mormon feminists. It's called EXPONENT. I'm going to be getting a sample issue soon. cyberpunks proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:19 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: XWWG12A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/24/1993 James As far as I know the, the term "anointed quorum' only refers to one kind of group. It appears that in Joseph's final days, the members anointed quorum were Joseph's most trusted confidants. It is arguable that they would have become the ruling body of the Church. First of all, Joseph began consulting them in matters of Church government, in lieu of the Twelve. We have statements, like the one that you gave us, which infer that the quorum of the anointed was the head of the Church. This is not surprising since these final ordinances were thought of as the highest blessings that exist. Their authority was not based on any patriarchal stamp of approval, but on celestial marriage and the second anointing, a actualization of all that God has to offer mortal men. It seemed egalitarian and included women. This core group carefully began establishing new groups throughout the Church. It was the beginning of the heavenly order on earth, but this was not to be. Joseph died. The Corporate Church began. Power was consolidated in the Twelve and the idea of prayer circle groups was slowly pushed into oblivion.... almost. (The above information was gleaned primarily from Quinn's prayer circle article and STRANGERS IN PARADOX.) Now, it is the age of information. We are starting to relearn what happened at Nauvoo. It will not be brushed under the rug. History cannot be rewritten this time. If the Church does not choose to own this material in a realistic and open way, they may alienate their best and most promising minds. When Andy and I found out about it, last summer, we were frankly astounded. Our view of the Church was transformed, and this transformation hinged on this new view of the prayer circle. Hats off to the Signature crowd for putting this vital material into the popular Mormon psyche. We will not allow our heritage to be forgotten. little mouse proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:22 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: DHFK98A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/24/1993 Mark The startling information is not in the newspaper. (Do you think you'll really find any startling info in the paper?) It's in the books and articles that we have been refering to. Have you read any of them? critique proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:43 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/24 5:59 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Good thing it's a slow sunday but this article is about 20 pages long so I wrap up here with the material about healing and leave the rest for a later time. According to Quinn, from the 1890 Manifesto ostensibly banning polygamy to the early 1900s, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve redefined many LDS doctrines. The relation of women to the priesthood endowment was only one of these redefinitions. However, the First Presidency continued to authorize women to anoint women for healing if only because of the church practice of using consecreated oil directly on the affected parts of the body. In Dec. 1935 the Presiding Bishopric and First Presidency discussed a report that Apostle Widtsoe had instructed missionaries in Europe to 'anoint the head only.' The presidency disagreed with this change and allowed the older practices to continue. But when men stopped anointing various parts of men's bodies with consecrated oil for healing, it became possible to exclude women from anointing and blessing the sick. That policy change did not become final for another decade. In 1946 Apostle J.F. Smith informed the Relief Society general presidency that it was no longer approved 'for sisters to wash and anoint other sisters.' Instead, he said that women should 'send for the Elders of the Church to come and administer to the sick and afflicted.' Thus a century of Mormon women's sacred ordinances no longer had the approval of the church's hierarchy. An era had officially ended. The BOM warned that pngts of the spirit such as healing would die only through unbelief (Mormo. 10:8, 11, 19, 26). LDS women have the same access to pngts of the spirit as men and can exercise their faith in healing. Anciently the apostles tried to circumscribe the exercise of spiritual pngts by condemning a person who healed the sick but who was not a follower of Jesus. Jesus answered their objection with the words, 'Forbid him not; for he that is not against us is for us.' (Luke 9:50) Mormon men, according to Quinn, need this reminded updated, 'Forbid her not, for she that is not against us is for us.' No woman needs a man's permission to lay her hands on her child's head and utter a blessing. Whether by priesthood endowment or spiritual pngt, an LDS woman may give a blessing to anyone, in or out of her family, in or out of church. According to Quinn, to some LDS men this is a frightening PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/24/93 11:43 PM prospect. Several even reportedly threatened to kill a devoted Mormon (SLC Mar 11, 1989) who recently suggested that women should have the opportunity for ordination to every priesthood office. A death threat has no bearing on what God confers on women, but it is, again according to Quinn, unfortunate evidence of misogyny in modern Mormonism. >>>>> danny....who will now go help the better half... PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:22 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 8:04 AM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Sarah, the whole point of Quinn's article is that Mormon women who receive their temple endowments by definition or tradition already hold the Melchizedek priesthood. It is a priesthood without office but a priesthood none the less. As Quinn observes in his conclusion: for LDS women Melchizedek priesthood does not come in stages of ordination as with mormon men but rather in the temple endowment. Historically LDS women also have received church authority to exercise their Melchizedek priesthood power in behalf of others. The temple endowment has not changed in fundamental ways since its introduction. The endowment gives today exactly what it conferred from 1842 to 1846. During those four years Joseph and those he endowed all affirmed that women receive the Melchizedek priesthood when they receive the endowment. The documents of 19th century Mormon history also indicate, according to Quinn, that women have been heirs and recipients of the Melchizedek priesthood since the days of biblical patriarchs. Melchizedek priesthood conferral has always been independent of the offices of the LDS church. Mormon women already have God's priesthood of spiritual power. Without asking permission they may draw on the power of endowment. However, it is necessary for endowed women to receive permission of the church to use their priesthood in church settings to administer the sacrament, baptize, confirm, or administer temple ordinances. I realize the nuances of this can be confusing but the issue seems quite alive and the 'spider women' of the church may yet eat their mates...... danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:25 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 9:10 AM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: JAMES PETERSEN (XWWG12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Bryan, Maybe they never did get booted. When women get their endowments even today, they are clothed in the identical robes of the holy priesthood as the men [the robes are on public view in any LDS funeral service.] And, they are told they can administer in the ordinances of the Aaronic and Melch. priesthood. Seems to me that the power is there in the endowment--but the power is dormant during this portion of our earthly life. [sorry, I'm probably getting out in speculation limbo here--just posting my own private thoughts.] But, seeing my wife in the identical robes of the Holy Priesthood in the temple gave me a whole different view of our relationship. Any comments? PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:27 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 6:04 PM TO: JAMES PETERSEN (XWWG12A) FROM: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM It sounds to ME (ignorant and obnoxious Gentile that I am) as though Mormon women didn't get booted--they got WEASELED. More shame to redound on the honchos... PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:28 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 7:50 PM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: ANDREW MCGUIRE (FKSP88A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Bryan, Weasled pretty well sums it up. After Joseph Smith died and B. Young became defacto leader of the church, his first move against the women was to suspend their involvement in the Anointed Quorum. He later did away with the quorum altogether. Later, B.Y. did away with the Relief Society which, as Dan has already pointed out, may have been intended to prepare women for their share in the priesthood. The issue was then left to die a slow but quiet death over the course of the next 40 or 50 years. All we were left with for years were the hintings from the temple ceremony. Then along comes D. Michael Quinn, the master researcher, and his loud-mouth cohorts the Toscanos, and suddenly the feminists are perking up and muttering, "Hey! Tell me more......." \/ Andrew /\ PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:31 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 8:46 PM TO: BRYAN MILLER (JHCC40A) FROM: JAMES PETERSEN (XWWG12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Bryan, Actually, the endowed LDS women I know are all perfectly content with the symbols of the priesthood as shown to them in the temple. It's all the non-LDS ladies who get in a real snit about the whole thing. I've never figured out why someone would be upset about LDS ladies not having active priesthood powers when the upset one doesn't even believe in the LDS priesthood in the first place. P.S. Bonnie--not that I any kind of scientist, but recent articles about astronomy talk about a type of "dark matter" that cannot be seen, but appears to be spread throughout the universe--apparently lots of physics calculation kept not coming out right, until they factored in the mass and presence of all this stuff they couldn't see. Maybe others more scientific than I can expand. PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:35 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 5:54 PM TO: C MARSTON (JR) (KXBN51A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Charlie the citation in the footnote refers to a newspaper article titled "Firmage threateneQuinn's New Book3 ================= Quinn's New Book3 ----------------- d after suggesting priesthood for Women,' SLC Tribune, Mar. 11, 1989. I have no knowledge of the particulars of the incident. Quinn also cites the 'black widow Spider' remark of Harmon Rector of the Seventy but tries to balance these with Spencer Kimball's remarks against gender condescension: 'Our Sisters do not wish to be indulged or to be treated condescendingly; they desire to be respected and revered as our sisters and our equals. I mention these thing, my brethren because in some situations our behavior is of doubtful quality.' Quinn's essay doesn't have the feel of a polemic. He presents the historical evidences to support his contentions but also notes opposing evidences. As he presents the matter the stronger case seems for the time being that Mormon women do have a priesthood but no office. Buried in the footnotes (#5) is a reference to a forthcoming book on the LDS hierarchy, the officially published History of the Church, and changes to the primary historical documents of the Church. If his last book was any indication then this next volume will know doubt be front page news for a time. danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:36 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 6:02 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) -------------------------------- SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Proclus, it can only remain conjecture as to what Joseph ultimately intended for the priesthood. We can say with some certainity what happened after his death and the exodus. Interestingly, the RLDS tradition has solved this problem, albeit with some controversy, by the admission of women to the priesthood. danny PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:37 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 6:07 PM TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A) FROM: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) -------------------------------- SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Are you talking about Quinn's article about prayer circles? I'm not up on that particular issue. I've seen some of your notes on the subject but to be honest the Wiccan speculations struck me as being a bit wistful.... danny...neo-wit PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:45 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TO: MWRS12A SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM DATE: 01/25/1993 Dan Yes, Quinn and Toscano's prayer circle data dove tails very nicely with the material you have posted. I have posted it to death. The Wiccan parallels are NOT wistful. There is virtual one to one correspondence between the two sets of rituals. Have you looked at the Wiccan sources that we have described? I don't have an explanation for the Wiccan parallels. Perhaps this is why the field seems speculative. It is not. Check the documents. cone of power proclus PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25/93 11:46 PM FRANK DISCUSSION TOPIC: RELIGION TIME: 01/25 8:08 PM TO: DAN JENKINS (MWRS12A) FROM: ANDREW MCGUIRE (FKSP88A) ----------------------------------- SUBJECT: ANTI-MORMONISM Danny, Just as an aside, guess what Quinn did his doctoral dissertation on....... The LDS hierarchy. \/ Andrew, /\ deja vu.
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