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Temple Ritual1
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PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/25/92       11:33 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       NHPC34A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     03/25/1992


Allen
I was away for the weekend and missed
out on your interesting endowment posts.
This is vile censorship.  If you have
them on disk, would you shoot me copies
via personal mail?  If this is too much
of a hassle, don't worry about it, ie;
DON'T RETYPE THEM FOR ME.

         Thanx for whatever is done

                   proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:07 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/23 12:40 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Allan,
  Wouldn't it have been easier just to give us all the
address of Lighthouse ministry and let us buy our own copy
of all this stuff?  Or maybe you are just practicing your
typing skills and decided to share it with us.
  But for a more serious question.  What was your
motivation for all those posts?  I am sure you know that
all of us Utah Mormons (well, ALMOST all of us) are going to
be absolutely livid at your putting the temple ceremony on
public display.  Giving you the benefit of the doubt and
assuming that you did not just do this to provoke a
reaction, the question is raised again:  Why?

              \/ St Andrew the Dogmaphobe, who neither
              /\        approves nor disapproves


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:07 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/23  6:55 PM

TO:      ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

St. Andrew, if we can write to Lighthouse ministries and
receive the same thing, then what's the diff? If is't not
for public view, then why is it published for the public? I
don't get it. Seriously! The LDS scream secrecy when all of
it is public information! What's the big deal? They have
disclosed more on this board openly about their beliefs than
can be disclosed in the postings of the endowment. Geeesh!


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:08 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/23 10:13 PM

TO:      ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Lighthouse ministry? Nope I don't think so......however I
did use it to ascertain the validity of my source. Why would
I care what the "Utah" mormons care? I am not posting the
information for them, as they should already know what the
temple rituals are. If the mormons are so scared to make
known their rituals, may I suggest they copyright them. I
guess they can't as then us gentiles would have access
to a mormon "official" copy also....Now the mormon officials
wouldn't want that now would they!!!!!!

Allan  BTW, your religion professes that all the information
givin in the rituals can be found in your scriptures....
So why would you be upset with posting of this. Why? because
it is a collection of imaginative and stolen rituals from
other sources....


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:09 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  5:20 PM

TO:      ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
FROM:    BARBARA KOCH   (WBKN78A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

     Why should anyone be livid at his putting the temple
ceremonies on the board?  Are they supposed to be a secret?
I thought they were interesting.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:09 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  5:20 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    BARBARA KOCH   (WBKN78A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

     What is the difference between a "Utah" Mormon and any
other kind of Mormon? (Answer quickly, please!)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:09 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  6:09 PM

TO:      STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Stephenie,     To answer your second question (why is it
published if it isn't for public view?), I guess I should
point out that the source I mentioned, Lighthouse Ministry,
is an "Anti-Mormon" bookstore and publishing house.  I don't
want to give the impression that it is the LDS church which
is making the Temple ceremony available in printed form.
   As to your other questions, I guess it is a matter of
attitude and respect.  If a person (LDS or not) wants to
obtain this info for his own edification and study, fine.
Or, if someone wants to engage in a respectful and
intelligent discussion of this material, even in a public
forum such as Prodigy, also fine (just don't be offended
when people such as Marsha and Grant refuse to join in.
They feel that to do so is wrong, and they must be
respected for staying true to what they feel are very
important covenants.).
   When I saw Allan's posts, I saw no reason given for their
having been posted.  Maybe he did say, and I just missed it.
I am giving Allan the benefit of the doubt and assuming that
he has a noble motivation.  I want to hear what that
motivation is.
   A final word.  All of us on this board (myself included)
tend, on occasion, to get caught up in the holiness of our
own beliefs.  We then tend to treat others and their beliefs
in a rather shoddy manner.  The Mormon temple ceremony has
suffered more than its share of this type of treatment.
While I may not turn blue in the face and heap damnation
upon the people responsible for this type of behavior, it
does, nevertheless, sadden me.
  There, now that I have vented some unbridled seriousness,
it is back to the persona of the discordian slack
master........

              \/ St Andrew, Pope, Mome baiter, and general
              /\   all around bundle of rampant
                   insecurity and angst.


               (Do as Thou Wilt, Y'all)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:10 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  8:27 AM

TO:      BARBARA KOCH   (WBKN78A)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Barbara,
     Apparently the mormons were livid, as they contacted
the *P Police and censored my notes...So much for their
statements on being open in their beliefs. I am working on
another way to present them if I do not get a satifactory
answer from Big Brother as to why they were pulled. I cannot
believe that they would pull these notes and leave the
mormons to present a one-sided view of their church...
Anyway-to all the people that enjoyed the posts, hang in
there, We shall return soon in one version or another.

Allan (disappointed in the mormons)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:10 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  6:06 PM

TO:      BARBARA KOCH   (WBKN78A)
FROM:    THOMAS GOODWIN   (PHJX44A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

   Actually, (and the LDS here will deny it) the so-called
temple "ordinances" bear a strong resemblance to the rites
of Scottish Rite Masonry. Joseph Smith was deeply involved
in Masonry. He established a Lodge at Nauvoo. All of the LDS
can ATTEMPT to re-write the HISTORY of the TIME. Of course,
you can do your own research and conclude that this
religion is NOT Quite what it says to be.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:11 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/23 10:13 PM

TO:      DANA LYBRAND   (XSNF71B)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Dana,
    How would they get me pulled off the board? Just because
they beleive that these rituals are secret? This is a part
of your religion and is open to the debates that appear on
this board haveing to to with your religion. If this is
truely your opinion, then I find your profession of this
religion to be extremely offensive and request that all
notes in all topics pertaining to mormons be removed....
Give me a break, just because your church does not want
these rituals exposed, does not mean that it shouldn't be
done...The last time I looked, this bb was for discussion
and debate of the topics..if you care not to discuss a
certain topic or enter into a "spirited" debate, I may
sugest that you just use your arrow keys and skip the whole
thing.
Allan (more to come on the topic)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:12 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  5:21 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    THOMAS GOODWIN   (PHJX44A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

  What happened to the rest of your postings regarding the
adaptations of Scottish Rite Rituals in the so-called
"sacred" temple ceremonies?
  I think the LDS here doth protest too much. What are they
ashamed of? It looks like the Mormons here got your postings
censored for one reason or another. Count me in on your
endeavor to reveal the FACTS of the matter.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:13 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  5:21 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    TERESA TERRY   (RBWK95B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Allan, I have to thank you for one thing. Even though none
of us LDS like to have the temple rituals "dragged through
the mud" as they say, I do enjoy the fact that you are
dispelling a lot of the most fanatical rumors that circulate
around about the temple. At least people can see that what
we do isn't as "satanic" as people were previously led to
believe. There are no "orgies", people running round naked,
or any of the sexual things that I have read about in some
anti-mormon texts. The temple is a beautiful, spiritual
place. All things are done in the most reverent way
possible. It is a shining example of LDS commitment to the
work of the LORD. Unfortunatly, there are those who would
mock us which is why the cerimonies are considered sacred
and not to be talked about openly like this. The words alone
hardly show the whole spirit of the temple experience. I do
not deny you the right to openly discuss these things, but
please remember and respect how much these things mean to
us. No matter what you feel about the words or where
they came from, that doesn't take away from what they mean
to us just because you choose to make them public in this
manner. Just remember, most LDS who have been in the church
for any length of time knows what is said about Joseph Smith
"stealing" masonic ritual words. If it really mattered to
us, do you think we would still be here? If it doesn't
matter to us (we who have dedicated our lives to this
religion), why does it matter so much to you? The LDS church
does not "brain wash" people into staying nor does it try to
"hide" what other people say about all this. There has been
nothing you or anybody else on this board have written that
hasn't been said before. No new "atrocities" uncovered. What
is the point of all this? Why do you feel the need to
belittle something that means so much to us? After all, if
we already know all you say about us yet are still strong in
the faith, do you think that maybe we are too unintelligent
to think for ourselves? Is that how you feel about us? Are
you trying to save us from ourselves? If that be the case, I
thank you for being concerned about us. Each of us caring
about our brothers and sisters is what the Lord wants.

                                         Terri


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:15 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  5:21 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    TERESA TERRY   (RBWK95B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Allan, I have to thank you for one thing. Even though none
of us LDS like to have the temple rituals "dragged through
the mud" as they say, I do enjoy the fact that you are
dispelling a lot of the most fanatical rumors that circulate
around about the temple. At least people can see that what
we do isn't as "satanic" as people were previously led to
believe. There are no "orgies", people running round naked,
or any of the sexual things that I have read about in some
anti-mormon texts. The temple is a beautiful, spiritual
place. All things are done in the most reverent way
possible. It is a shining example of LDS commitment to the
work of the LORD. Unfortunatly, there are those who would
mock us which is why the cerimonies are considered sacred
and not to be talked about openly like this. The words alone
hardly show the whole spirit of the temple experience. I do
not deny you the right to openly discuss these things, but
please remember and respect how much these things mean to
us. No matter what you feel about the words or where
they came from, that doesn't take away from what they mean
to us just because you choose to make them public in this
manner. Just remember, most LDS who have been in the church
for any length of time knows what is said about Joseph Smith
"stealing" masonic ritual words. If it really mattered to
us, do you think we would still be here? If it doesn't
matter to us (we who have dedicated our lives to this
religion), why does it matter so much to you? The LDS church
does not "brain wash" people into staying nor does it try to
"hide" what other people say about all this. There has been
nothing you or anybody else on this board have written that
hasn't been said before. No new "atrocities" uncovered. What
is the point of all this? Why do you feel the need to
belittle something that means so much to us? After all, if
we already know all you say about us yet are still strong in
the faith, do you think that maybe we are too unintelligent
to think for ourselves? Is that how you feel about us? Are
you trying to save us from ourselves? If that be the case, I
thank you for being concerned about us. Each of us caring
about our brothers and sisters is what the Lord wants.

                                         Terri


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:16 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/24  8:00 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    C SCHMINK            (FHCS11A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Dana, it appears that Prodigy felt that a certain degree of
respect was required on THEIR boards - I note that there are
no temple ceremonies posted on the board today.  I assume
that after the accusations made that Prodigy allowed the
posting of anti-Semitic remarks last year (which they
vigorously denied), they also decided that posting of things
considered sacred and not open to public discussion by a
recognized religious group was inappropriate.  Somehow, I
can't imagine that if someone chose to invade the privacy of
the Masons, or the Native American Church, and post THEIR
secret rituals, that Prodigy would just gleefully allow
posting of stolen details.  Mr. Rifleman claims to have
actually gone into an LDS Temple and gone through an
endowment ceremony, which would have required him to have
used either stolen or forged documents to do so, and would
have required knowing deception to get in.  He also stated
that he believed the LDS Church may be the church of the
devil, which would mean that either (1) he made covenants
with the Lord and mocked them publicly, or (2) he made
covenants with the devil (if he really believes what he
posted).  In ANY case, it appears Prodigy doesn't want to
use its resources to participate in the invasion of privacy
of groups or individuals, and decided that they could not
selectively choose to exclude anti-Semitic remarks while
allowing the posting of things most repugnant to Latter-day
Saints.  I'll bet that if Masons or Native Americans
objected to the equivalent treatment on these boards, the
response would have been dramatic and quick!  Anyway,
PRODIGY  has apparently spoken.  A certain degree of decency
(i.e. respect for privacy and dignity) prevails.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:17 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  8:27 AM

TO:      TERESA TERRY   (RBWK95B)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Terri,
   The Mormon church is serious about "brainwashing" or for
a better word, indotrinate, they use several classic ways to
do this
First is in the statement "We are the only true church on
the face of the Earth". Second.  Excessive amounts of time
lay people devote to the church. Example of Wards around
here. Mon. FHE-usually ends up with discussion of doctrine
      Tues. Youth group meeting for young adults
      Wed/Thrus/Fri committe meetings, presidency, meetings
      interviews.
      Sat. Church socials, broadcasts, Know your religion
      presentations.
      Sun. A full day of church services and meetings.
When you look at the control the church has by limiting your
time away from it. They then have great control in
presenting the doctrine and ingraining it as the truth
without a member questioning it.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:18 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25 11:06 AM

TO:      THOMAS GOODWIN   (PHJX44A)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Thomas,
      They are coming, I have not had time to post them. As
you can see with the temple rituals, I have been busy.
However, it appears that the mormons have seen fit to
supress our right to know by going to the PPolice and
yanking the notes....Now that I am waiting for an answer
from *P on what exactly they found "offensive" I will take
time to publish more of the connections with masonry.
It appears the moroms do not believe in free speach for us
gentiles if we are presenting an opposing position to their
church.


Allan (would never stoop so low as the mormons have on this
board)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:19 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  1:07 PM

TO:      C SCHMINK            (FHCS11A)
FROM:    BARBARA KOCH   (WBKN78A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

     I'm sorry, but you are really being very silly.  There
was nothing offensive to anyone in anything that Allan
posted.  I thought it was interesting.  There was no blas-
phemy or anything else--just the facts of certain ceremon-
ies.  I am just learning about Mormonism, and I am not pre-
judiced one way or another, but I never heard of a religion
that kept ceremonies secret. What's the big deal?


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:19 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  4:30 PM

TO:      BARBARA KOCH   (WBKN78A)
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

I'm with you Barbara. Allan SAID nothing, he just posted.
That's it. Now if he had said something derrogatory along
with the posts maybe the LDS would have had a beef. One
thing you must know, when someone joins the LDS church, it
takes a year at least before they may receive a temple
recommend. That's 365 days of indoctrination. If I were a
Mormon initiate, and had finally become temple worthy and>>
had finally made it to the temple and participated in the
Endowment and had questions about it, I would have to feel
there was something wrong with ME for even questioning
something so sacred in the church. Whew! I don't understand
how a person who has REAL knowledge of the Holy Bible can
become LDS. There should be questions from the time the
missionaries hit your house! But after you start temple
classes, you are so indoctrinated as to forget what the real
scripture says that perhaps it doesn't matter anymore. And
if it does, then your 'worthiness' is questioned by the
Bishop. It is my understanding that the initiate doesn't>>>
know what goes on in the ceremony until he actually gets
there. Then it's too late for questions. I don't feel that
the exposure of this ceremony is of great injustice to
anyone. If you want a copy of the ceremony, I can give you
an address where you can get one. It's for sale to the
public and is not anti-mormon.

Always remember that there are no secrets in Jesus Christ.
He came openly to die for our redemption and loves you no
matter where you stand. He is always there for you and will
PERSONALLY answer any question you have. Depend on HIM!


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:21 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  6:05 PM

TO:      C SCHMINK            (FHCS11A)
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty
through God to the pulling down of strongholds; casting down
imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself
against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity
every thought to the obedience of Christ. Now the Spirit
speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall
depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and>>
doctrine of devils speaking lies in hypocracy; having their
conscience seared with a hot iron. Forbidding to marry and
commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to
be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know
the truth. For every living creature of God is good, nothing
to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it
is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the
brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a
good minister of Jesus Christ nourished up in the words of
faith and of good doctrine whereunto thou hast attained.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:22 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  6:07 PM

TO:      C SCHMINK            (FHCS11A)
FROM:    THOMAS GOODWIN   (PHJX44A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

  Please forgive me, but I cannot ALLOW your distortions of
Mr. Rifleman's notes to go without correction.
  First of all, he NEVER claimed to have "actually gone into
an LDS Temple and gone through an endowment ceremony, which
would have required him to have used either stolen or
forged documents to do so, and would have required knowing
deception to get in." SIC. I challenge you to document >>>>
and PROVE what you said. It's not too late, yet.
  Futhermore, I don't recall where he ever said that "he
believed that the LDS Church may be the Chruch of the
devil." SIC. Is this an obvious fabrication or what? I
really don't understand WHY the LDS here constantly twist
the words of the non-LDS here.It DOES nothing to bring about
our conversion. In FACT, it alienates all of the Christians
here who are Catholic and Protestant.   In closing, it is
apparent that the LDS Church has DONE absolutely NOTHING
against the Anti-Semitism in this nation and elsewhere. For
you to claim or infer the same kind of>>>
persecution in this day and age will surely fall on hearing
ears that can discern Fact from Fiction.


            Best Regards from Your "Gentile"
            Tom Goodwin phjx44a
            Submitted 3/24 @10:10PM PST


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        03/26/92        0:23 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/25  9:30 PM

TO:      ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
FROM:    GRANT JOHNSON   (FKGS58A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Allan:

I would like to illustrate my "typical" LDS week and the
time I devote to my church, just so that you can rest
assured that it is not the way you present it.
 Next page>>>>>>>>>>
Monday: 1 to 2 hours to Family Home Evening (a time of 10 or
        20 minutes of formal instruction, some of the time,
        and the rest fun time. Sometimes a rented movie.)
Tuesday: Time alone with my family
Wednesday: Time alone with my family
Thursday: Same as wednesday
Friday: A "date night" with my wife
Saturday: Time alone with my family
Sunday: a 3 hour church block, maybe an hour of visits to my
        home teaching families, and time alone with my
        family.
A couple times a month I have a "meeting" for my calling
on the first and third Sundays. This usually takes an hour
for each meeting (of which I personally have about five).
I also chaperone a youth dance once a month.

All in all, I spend about six hours a week on church things,
about 35-40 hours on family time, and about 45 hours on work
related things. The rest is sleep and maintenance. I am not
out of balance. I like it this way. It is not a
brainwashing. How much time do YOU spend with your family?
                                 Grant


----------------------------------------------------------------------
READ A MESSAGE                                                03/27/92
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 From: ALLAN RIFLEMAN (NHPC34A)
 Subject: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
 Sent on: 03/26 at 11:40 AM

Michael,
     Yes, I am a bit disappointed that the mormons had the guile to
complain and have my posts deleted. However, if you E-Mail your
address, I would be glad to send you a copy.....

Allan(just keepin' the faith)



----------------------------------------------------------------------
WRITE A MESSAGE                                               03/27/92
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 SEND TO:  ALLAN RIFLEMAN  (NHPC34A)
 SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Allen

Thanx anyway.  I meant it when I said not to go to too much trouble.

My eye on your topic!

proclus



PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        4:07 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/31 12:47 PM

TO:      ALL
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

To the LDS. Being that this is the 'ritual' topic, I have a
question. Is there a black and white checkered floor in the
Temple? Also what is the significance of the 'veil'?
Is the Goat of Mendez represented anywhere in your
architecture?
                         thanks


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        4:17 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/31  2:30 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Proclus, I still don't get the connection between the occult
symbols on the dollar bill and my membership in the Body of
Christ. The eye? Well, it's the All Seeing Eye of Horus, a
symbol found in the Masonic Order and ancient religions.
What does this have to do with me?

                    be kind and gentle to me!!


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        5:47 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       KBHD86A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/01/1992


Sorry Steph.  I was being a bit of a smart---.

The reason that the Eye in the Pyramid stands out in
religious traditions is that it is said to represent the
hierarchy.  Ideally, God sits at the  top.  That is why it
is called the All Seeing Eye of God.  Initiatory traditions
often see the earthly hierarchy as a reflection of the
heavenly.  Ritually climbing pyramids, they go on until they
attain the highest level. (cf PseudoDionesius)

The Eye of Horus figures in the Mormon ritual texts.  It is
said to represent certain "keys".  (Book of Abraham)

All of this could be an allegory for the Xtian belief system
in general. if God is your ruler, then he sits atop the
pyramid of your soul.  Many ritual traditions attempt to
break down this belief system.  (cf KLF Pyramid Blasters)
The methods are highly varied, but probably outside the
scope of the Mormon Temple Endowment.

enthroned

proclusTemple Ritual2
==============
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        8:41 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    03/31  9:15 PM

TO:      STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
FROM:    GEORGE RASMUSSEN   (FJNN78A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

 Stephenie/..You will not find present LDS Temple patrons
who will answer your questions. That which transpires in the
confines of the Mormon Temple, like the Masonic rites from
which these things originally were drawn, is considered both
'sacred' and secret. In fact those who went through the
Temple ceremony prior to the changes made in 1990, swore by
a blood oath that they would not "reveal" what they saw >>
or heard in the Temple. It does not matter apparently than
one can go to the public library and check out books which
detail the LDS Temple ceremony from the time of Joseph Smith
to the present. ..Mormons are still taught that speaking of
the ceremony outside the Temple is something that they are
not permitted to do - not even between husband and wife!
 ..Your questions, Stephenie - No, there is not a black and
white checkerboard floor in the LDS Temple. The veil in the
Temple, as the books in the library explain, is the curtain
behind which the Temple worker who plays the part of the
'Lord' at this point stands. The Temple patron comes >>
forward in his or her white Temple clothing with the white
hat, the apron and the sash in place - and on "the five
points of fellowship" through the veil various touchings (of
a purely non-sexual nature) are engaged in, handclasps
exchanged and responses given to ritual inquiries - which
upon proper completion the patron is ushered by 'the Lord'
through the Veil and into an adjoining room which is called
the "Celestial Room." ..This room typifies the "Celestial
Kingdom" of Mormon teaching.
 ..Just an interesting sidelight:  When my wife and family
and I came away from Mormonism about a dozen years >>>>>
or more ago, we went through a long period of course of
sorting out our feelings as well as our understanding of the
things that Mormonism had soaked us in -- and in time my
wife and I came to speak openly between the two of us of our
experience in the LDS Temple. ..Now, in going through the
Temple the husband learns the wife's 'new name,' but the
wife is not permitted to know the husband's. ..The idea is
that in the ressurrection the husband, as the priesthood
holder, will 'call the wife forth from the grave.' To do
this he will use the 'new name.'
 Well, my wife and I discovered that the 'new name' I had >>
been given as being hers, was NOT THE SAME as the 'new name'
she had been given!! ..What a deal! ..Apparently the names
given out that day had been transposed from one day to the
next for the women, and the men attending that day like
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        8:41 PM
myself were given a 'new name' for their wife which did not
match the 'new name' given the women! ..Well, accidents and
mistakes do happen apparently - but this one was really a
duzie if you believe LDS doctrine at this point! ..How many
husbands, unable to speak to their wives respecting the
details of the Temple ceremony, will go through life
thinking they have the wife's 'new name' when actually >>
they do not?  Interesting to contemplate..
 To the "Goat of Mendez": Early Mormon Temple architecture
liberally employed occult symbols on both the exteriors and
the interiors. The Rams Head, the All Seeing Eye, the Sun
Stone, etc. were extremely popular. ..In fact one of the
most profane of all occult symbols is to this day a most
predominate architectural feature of every LDS meeting house
in the world.. Yet LDS and non-LDS alike commonly dismiss it
as 'harmless,' or rationalize and 'explain' it away.
 Praise God from whom all blessings flow!  Jesus the Christ
is Lord - and He is risen indeed!!      +GR+


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        8:45 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/01  8:02 PM

TO:      GEORGE RASMUSSEN   (FJNN78A)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Good post George,
    I wonder if Ole Joe had interest in the Illuminati, He
may not have had much education but he did show that he had
the ability to control and perpetuate a massive fraud and
control over a group of people.  He would have made old Adam
W. Proud.......
Novus Ordo Seclorum,
             (O)
             / \
            /   \
           /     \
          /       \
         -----------
Allan


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/01/92        8:51 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       NHPC34A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/01/1992


Allen

It is interesting that the Illuminati are said to have
believed in the perfectability of man.  Isn't that what the
Mormon ritual is all about, the attainment of godhood?  The
Illuminati infiltrated Masonic lodges.  The connection
between Joseph and Freemasonry is undisputed.  Maybe their
is a connection between Mormonism and Illuminism.

Konx om pax

proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:07 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       KGWR00A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/03/1992


Dan

Do you have an opinion of the Tanner's book, MORMONISM,
MAGIC, AND MASONRY.  I thought of you and our little
MORMO-MAGICK subject when I saw the title.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:12 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/02 10:23 PM

TO:      STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
FROM:    MARYANN BROWN   (WWMD79B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Stephanie,
   What is the significance of the black and white checkered
floor? (It also appears on the cover of Robt.Anton Wilson's
"Illuminatus Trilogy", so I wondered about it here)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:13 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/03  1:07 PM

TO:      GRANT JOHNSON   (FKGS58A)
FROM:    NED SMITH   (JWXB00D)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Grant- I saw what I said I saw. Have you ever been to the
Celestial Room in the Jorden Temple??  My last name is not
Dunn.  I don't lie.

Unless you have been there, you have no right to say that I
did not tell the truth and I resent it.
                                          Ned


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:15 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/03  1:09 PM

TO:      STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Steph,
    I believe that the new name again is taken from the
masonic rituals however don't quote me on this yet. I need
to look it up.
Allan (do Mormon Cows Tip?)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:15 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/03  1:09 PM

TO:      MARYANN BROWN   (WWMD79B)
FROM:    ALLAN RIFLEMAN   (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Praise BOB again,
I guess I will take some flack for that statement from the
non-followers of Wilsons writings
Allan


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:16 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/03  1:13 PM

TO:      MARYANN BROWN   (WWMD79B)
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

MaryAnn, I'm surprised you don't know about the checkered
floor in the Masonic Temple. You seem to be well acquainted
with the Masonic Order.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:17 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/03  5:07 PM

TO:      NED SMITH   (JWXB00D)
FROM:    GRANT JOHNSON   (FKGS58A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Ned:

There may be a mirror in the Celestial room in the Jordan
temple. All I know is that I have been to five or six other
temples, and there are no mirrors in this room. You want to
make it sound like everywhere we turn in the temple that we
will see reflections of ourselves.  Please don't resent
these facts that downplay your experience.

                                          Grant


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:23 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       WWMD79B
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/03/1992


MaryAnn!

It's great to see you over from the ROBERT ANTON WILSON
subject.  We have a little party going on over here.  It
seems that BOB, disguised as a poor wretch named Allen has
dropped an ontological bomb.  Would you like a sip from the
cup?    night of pan            proclus         LUX


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:25 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/02  8:46 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Proclus, I'm sorry, but the All Seeing Eye of Horus is just
that. It has no significence as God--at least I don't think
so. Our God of the Bible doesn't sit on the top of any
pyrimid. His Spirit resides within our hearts.

                         off the pulpit now,
                              Steph


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:25 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/03  1:14 PM

TO:      STEPHENIE ORRIS   (KBHD86A)
FROM:    CHRISTOPHER ROOT   (HHKR25A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Steph's right, the eye is not a reference to God, that is,
not the God of orthodox Christianity. However, it HAS been
(and still is) used though the years by pagan religions,
cults and occult groups. In my "Standard Masonic Monitor"
(1898 edition), the all seeing eye is described this way:
   "The symbol of the All-Seeing Eye reads a terrible lesson
to the plotters of iniquity, and especially to those whose
crimes are against Humanity. It tells them that, although
they execute their wicked puposes in the profound darkness
of "low-twelve", where mortal eyes cannot observe them,
there IS an eye from whose scrutiny they cannot flee, and
which sees all their shameful deeds as clearly in the
deepest midnight as in the splendor of noonday."
   In this case the all-seeing eye is describing a god, but
it is the god of Masonry, not the God of orthodox
Christianity.
   Another tidbit: In Mike Warnke's book, "Schemes of Satan"
the all-seeing eye is described thusly:             >>>
   "In non-occult use, the eye...symbolizes "enlightenment."
Within the occult, the emphasis is on Lucifer as the one who
brings enlightenment. The "eye's" connection with the
Illuminati, a group founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776, is
possible but not proven."

   Hope that was enough of an "eyeful" for you!

                   +++ Chris +++


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:38 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       KBHD86A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/03/1992


Steph

The Eye of Horus is featured in the Mormon BOOK OF ABRAHAM.
It is found in Facsimile 2, Figure 3.  The hierarchy think
so much of this symbol that they had it redrawn in the
latest edition.  It is said to represent "the grand
Key-words of the Holy Priesthood, as revealed to Adam in
the Garden of Eden."  There are also some other symbols that
are strangely reminiscent of a compass and square.

Since the Mormon church is obviously a Xtian religion, it
follows that the Eye of Horus is a Xtian symbol!

            big fat grin

                        proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        8:43 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       FKGS58A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/03/1992


Grant

What has this got to do with the Mormon Temple Ritual?

     endowment or enduement?

                            proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/03/92        9:12 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       RDBK99A
SUBJECT:  MORMONS CHRISTIANS?
DATE:     04/03/1992


If you want to understand the Mormon concept of God, you
have to realize that it is derived from the visions of their
prophets.  Joseph's first vision is the prime example.

It may not be spelled out in the BOM however, one BOM
prophet is said to have seen God.  The account of the
brother of Jared is highly suggestive.(Ether chapter 3)>>>>>
He sees that Christ was at that time a spirit in the form of
a man.  He is given the vision of all things a la the Book
of Abraham.  While it is not stated explicitly that he now
has the promise of eventual godhood, the language is highly
suggestive.  There is a "kingdom prepared for him".  He is
to "treasure up the things" that he is told and "show it to
no man".

I am often annoyed that people who have only had a cursory
glance at the Book of Mormon are eager to make blanket
statements about it.  It is foolish to make blanket
statements about such a large and complex work.

          promise

                 proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:44 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04  7:45 AM

TO:      DANIEL JENKINS   (KGWR00A)
FROM:    MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Dan

Do you have an opinion of the Tanner's book, MORMONISM,
MAGIC, AND MASONRY.  I thought of you and our little
MORMO-MAGICK subject when I saw the title.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:46 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04  1:21 PM

TO:      MARYANN BROWN   (WWMD79B)
FROM:    MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

MaryAnn!

It's great to see you over from the ROBERT ANTON WILSON
subject.  We have a little party going on over here.  It
seems that BOB, disguised as a poor wretch named Allen has
dropped an ontological bomb.  Would you like a sip from the
cup?    night of pan            proclus         LUX


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:48 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04  8:40 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    DANIEL JENKINS   (KGWR00A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Mike, the Tanner's book laid some of the important ground
work for D. Michael Quinn's 'Early Mormonism and the Magic
World View.'  Interestingly, Quinn was a highly respected
Mormon scholar and had been voted as the Outstanding Teacher
by students at BYU where he served as professor of American
history.  Quinn had already expressed criticism of the
church's insistence that LDS historians confine their
writings to so-called 'faith promoting' Church history which
conceals controversies and difficulties of the Mormon past.
The church's reaction to Quinn's book is detailed by Ron
Priddis, vp of Signature Books: "He was basically given the
choice at BYU of either resigning or being fired."  Quinn
choose to resign and to this date, neither Quinn nor the
church have issued any statement about the incident.

                                      Dan


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:53 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       KGWR00A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/06/1992


Dan

Thanks for the info.  Is Quinn the
modern equivalent of a heretic on a
stick?  How do you like your wienies?
      actually bothered
                       proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:55 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04  8:41 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    GRANT JOHNSON   (FKGS58A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Alright Mike,

I'll back down. I'm growing tired of picking up the poop
anyway. It doesn't seem to do any good.

                                       Grant


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:56 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04 10:27 PM

TO:      GRANT JOHNSON   (FKGS58A)
FROM:    NED SMITH   (JWXB00D)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Grant- It wasn't just a mirror.  No, Grant, as I recall, it
was wall to wall mirrors.  Now, it was 15-18 years ago, but
as I said, it was one of those things one does not forget.

Mirrors, reflecting into other mirrors can give distortions,
but, to me, I saw wall to wall mirrors.
                                  Ned


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        7:59 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04  8:31 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    MELISSA GATES   (DWRH70C)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Facsimile 2, figure 3, in the Book of Abraham: I see that
this is the one which Smith describes as "God, sitting on
his throne, clothed with power and authority".  For some
reason, Smith failed to notice that "God" in this figure has
the head of a bird!!  Egyptologists agree that this is the
falcon-headed sun god riding in his boat...
                ....bird is the word...


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92        8:00 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/04  8:31 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    MELISSA GATES   (DWRH70C)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Compass and square in Book of Abraham facsimile 2, item 3:
are you referring to the little gizmos just above the stern
of the boat (behind the sun-god's head?).  It's clear from
better published facsimiles that they are just letters of an
inscription (the thing that looks like a square is really
the Egyptian letter "s").
                   fun with hieroglyphics


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/06/92       10:47 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       DWRH70C
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/06/1992


To Steph and Nice to see you again Melissa!

The second facsimile of the Book of Abraham provides a
wealth of information about the source of Joseph's ritual
knowledge.  Horus is often represented as a hawk-headed
diety, exactly as found in figure 3.  The Eye of Horus is
found in figure 3 but also in figure 7, where it is again
connected with "the grand Key-words of the Priesthood.  The
god in this figure seems to be making a ritual gesture.  He
has a fishtail coming out behind him.  Obviously the Xtain
god has a fishtail!

Interestingly, a later manifestation of the this fishtailed
god was Oannes, the god of the stellar rite of the
Assyrians.  Oannes is often shown as making this same ritual
gesture.  The Eye of God in this tradition is openly called
the "eye-star".          siriusly
                                proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/08/92        8:47 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/08  1:36 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    MELISSA GATES   (DWRH70C)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

I don't know about the fishtail in Fac. 2, figure 7, if
that's really what it is.  But this god is more interesting
because of what's in front of him than what's in back...
my copy of the Book of Abraham (in POGP, dated 1982) clearly
shows this god as ithyphallic (something apparently censored
in earlier editions, but quite clear in the Times and
Seasons plates.  And the "dove" in fig. 7 is apparently an
incorrect restoration of a serpent with legs (also
ithyphallic!)


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/08/92        9:13 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       DWRH70C
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     04/08/1992


Melissa
I've got a reasonable reproduction in my ABRAHAM IN EGYPT.
I don't think that this is ithyphallic Osiris.  While we
should not surprised to see this prominant member in
egyptian documents, I think what you are looking at is the
right arm held low and forward.  I have seen representations
of ithyphallic Osiris.  The scribes were very careful about
the placement of limbs, all of them.  Their ritual demanded
exactness in these matters.  The same goes for the "dove"
which seems to me to be more hawkish than snakish.   This is
a rather poor reproduction though.  I took the time to look
at an early version of the facsimile and found that you are
right about the change.  If they were improving the
reproduction, you would think that they would have taken the
time to stick the limbs in the right place.  Isis made a
similar error though.  It seems that a fish had eaten
Osiris' nose.  She replaced it with a more prominant member.
          uplifted      proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/16/92        1:10 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    04/15  8:14 PM

TO:      ALL
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MORMON NAUVOO TEMPLE

Here are a few items culled from chapter 4 of THE EARLY
TEMPLES OF THE MORMONS (Laurel Andrew, State University of
New York Press, 1978):

The Nauvoo temple was the first Mormon temple to include
religious symbolism in its architecture.  This consisted
mainly of features incorporated into the pilasters
(columns built into exterior walls) of the building.

Joseph Smith had, by this time, revealed his doctrine of
many degrees of glory, and the Celestial, Terrestial and
Telestial kingdoms.  He compared the glory of these kingdoms
to the glory of the Sun, Moon and Stars, respectivly.  So
the symbols of the Sun, Moon and Stars were worked into the
pilasters. (See D&C 76, I Corinthians 15:40-42)

Each pilaster rested on a "Moonstone."  This was a stone
that had a quarter moon with a face carved into it.  Sort
of like the dude in those McDonalds "Mac Tonight" ads on TV
a while back.  The faces were pointed to the ground.

Each pilaster was capped with a sunstone.  The decoration on
these was a sun with a face carved into it.  It is not a
pretty or dignified face, and in fact ressembles a
caricature of Joseph Smith.  At least that is how I see
them.  Above the sun are two trumpets, to announce the
coming of the Lord.

Some feet above each sunstone is a single 5-pointed star.
Now this is the interesting part.  Early drawings of the
plans for this temple show these stars as "one horn
exalted," or right-side up.  But the final drawing, as well
as the actual building, have the stars "two horns exalted,"
or upside down. Ooooh!  Does it mean anything?  Probably
not.  And for those whe are thinking "Satanic," remember
that it ain't a satanic pentagram unless there is a circle
around the star...and there was not at Nauvoo.

Was there a Masonic connection?  The author seems to think
so.  She includes a copy of the frontispiece of THE NEW
FREE-MASON'S MONITOR, 1818.  Among the many symbols shown
are a sun and moon, looking very like the ones on the Nauvoo
temple, ugly mugs and all.  And to round out these Three
Lesser Lights of Masonry are a small bunch of 5-pointed
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/16/92        1:11 AM
stars  --one horn exalted.  These are all arranged in such a
way as to suggest the same greater-to-lesser order that
Smith ascribed to sun, moon and star.

This chapter also covers the Nauvoo Masonic Temple.  It was
designed by William Weeks, the same man who did the Nauvoo
Temple.  The only odd feature on its exterior are a number
of 5-pointed stars, all at an odd angle so that they are
neither one- or two-horn exalted.  Yet the preliminary
drawings for the biulding show them one horn exalted.
Strange.  "And it makes me wonder."

Questions?  Comments?  Or shall we move on to chapter 5, the
Salt Lake City Temple (Which has a REALLY juicy exterior.)

PS The book said little of import about the interior of the
building.               \/ St Andrew, apprentice to the
                        /\ Great Architect of the Universe


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        04/16/92        3:37 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       FKSP88A
SUBJECT:  MORMON NAUVOO TEMPLE
DATE:     04/16/1992


Andy

That was alot of info!  Do you have an opinion on these
rotating celestial bodies?  Why is the moon face down
instead of the more conventional representation?  And what
about these pentagrams.  Did the masonic temple of Nauvoo
really have a Discordian star on it?  Fancy that!  >>>>>>>>>

I have some material on the SLC temple architecture that I
will post if this discussion flies.


      big daddy hand

                    proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        05/16/92        3:57 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       ALL
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     05/16/1992


I posted this info a few weeks back and thought that I was
a little too obscure about my source.  You all seem to be
talking about everything but the temple.  Let's get back on
track now and see just how badly we can beat the horse.

I got this from the INVOCATION OF DEMETER.  THE HOMERIC
HYMNS are a must read for anyone interested in the ritual
context of Mormonism.  If you like or hate this I will be
posting more.

"...the awful mysteries not to be transgressed, violated, or
divulged, because the tongue is restrained by reverence for
the gods.  Whoever on earth has seen these is blessed, but
he who has no part in the holy rites has another lot as he
wastes away in dank darkness."

Nibley has remarked on the similarity of the Eve tradition
to the legend of Persephone.  These facts can ultimately
show the relationship of the ritual body of Mormonism to the
pagan mystery cults.

              ready to roll

    \ /         Every man and woman is a star.
  ---X---
    / \
                         proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        05/19/92        1:38 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    05/17 11:37 AM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    RALPH BRANDT   (TWFT57B)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Help me out... This ol country boy doesn;t recognize the
passaage you quote.  I do recognize the errors in it or
at least two.
First "reverence for the GODS".  What GODS?  Jehovah said,
no other Gods before me.  What others are we reverencing?
Second, Thomas was told "Blessed are they who have not seen
and yet believed"  This passage says blessed are they who..
have seen.

Where is this from?  It is not scripturally sound.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        05/19/92        1:38 AM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    05/17  6:50 PM

TO:      MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
FROM:    ANDREW MCGUIRE   (FKSP88A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Proclust,
   I was struck by the "reverence for the Gods" phrase.  In
past discussions on the temple, I have resisted the
temptation to say TOO much for precisely that reason.  The
dreaded penalties really don't strike much fear to my heart.
  I am ready to roll too, dude.  But I want to know your
Nibley reference first.
   One thing does bother me, though.  Why the urge to
compare Mormonism to the PAGAN?  You sound like Dave Hunt,
fer cryin' out loud!  Unless of course you plan on springing
that old Mormon argument "Well, the pagan rites are just
corruptions of earlier rites that were true and of God.
Therefore they help show the temple ceremony as being both
divine and ancient."
                                              \/ Andrew,
   I expect better (or worse????) of you.     /\ Sirius-ly

 PS to Ralph, Yes, Gods, plural. Just like in Gen 1:26, 3:22


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        05/19/92        2:27 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       TWFT57B
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     05/19/1992


Ralph

There are more gods in town than just Jehovah.  The doctrine
of plurality of gods is familiar to most Mormons.  It is a
recognized teaching of the Mormon church.  This passage is
describing a secret initiatory tradition. The Bible is
understandably silent on this topic.  Would you speak
plainly about your secret tradition?

atwixt the pillars

proclus


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        05/19/92        3:51 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:    BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO:       FKSP88A
SUBJECT:  MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL
DATE:     05/19/1992


Andy

The reverence for the gods is the essence of the sacred v.
secret controversy.  Mormons keep their secrets out of
respect for the holy, not for any fear of vile punishments.
This is true for virtually any initiatory cult.  Similarly,
the contention that earlier rites are just corruptions of
earlier rites that were true and of God is also a common
motif.  Members often ask for real discussion of gospel
themes.  Here is your chance.

The Nibley reference is ABRAHAM IN EGYPT p 160-1.
Persephone is given the older name of Kore.  In the
mysteries she is a figure of Eve and of Christ.  Each
contributed to our salvation in their own way.
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    \ /         Every man and woman is a star.
  ---X---
    / \     X
  SIRIUS               proclus
                                                 >>>>>>>>>ps
Did you tune into that earlier discussion where we
demonstrated that the stellar initiatory traditions of the
mediterranean basin had an uncanny resemblance to that of
Kolob.


PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service        06/19/92       11:05 PM
         ARTS CLUB
TOPIC:   BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME:    06/18  9:15 AM

TO:      MARSHA STEED   (JVFK79A)
FROM:    MICHAEL LOVE   (BXXF11A)
SUBJECT: MORMON-TEMPLE RITUAL

Andy

Well, I just couldn't resist putting my two cents in on the
Rosy Croix.  The followers of Aleister Crowley have done
their part to strip the Golden Dawn rituals of their Xtian
imagery.  Less ambivalent workers, like Waite have managed
to preserve this aspect of the tradition.  The cross is
after all, for much of the world, a symbol of Christ.  Many
would shink from the ithyphallic association.  Thus, for the
initiate, the cross represents the travail of the soul, the
trial of our faith, the crossing of the abyss.

Likewise, the rose represents the unveiling of the new
creation, the babe reborn, the triumphant prince.  The
initiate is given the title; Master of the Temple because he
has glimpsed all that there is.  Only perfections are above
his head, but of these he has not partaken.  Thus, he can
only speak of these in contradictories.  Above all things,
below all things.  In all things, through all things.
Master, Servant.

garlands

procli

ps rosey-eyed by the Rood, hi marsh
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