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Subject:
Re: Min the Mormon God
Date:
Sat, 22 May 1999 00:32:14 -0700
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
Kerry Shirts , richh@insurquote.com,
richard@cut.net, abmiller@novell.com,
NCT ,
Stephen Escobedo ,
Curtis Porritt ,
Gail Porritt ,
Robert R Black ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
onandagus ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
rpcman , Ken Shaw ,
Kathleen McGuire , comdb@yahoo.com,
proclus@mac.com, "Malcolm J. Vickery" ,
Enoch Shemna ,
ArtdeHoyos ,
moonlightmojo@my-dejanews.com,
Dagny Taggart ,
"R.L. Measures" ,
"Guy R. Briggs"
___Mark "Mr. Spambot" Hines___
Concerning the previously posted article below, I'm still waiting to
see
the very best reply from a Mormon apologist. Why is it acceptable to
represent God with Min [in Facsimile 2]? How can Mormons
represent
God with Min, a pagan god who has an erect penis?
___Rich___
piece o' cake, Mark: Claim that the penis sort of looks like God's
arm.
----
Actually, considering what we know of Min, I can understand why God
would be
represented by such. Min has strong Canaanite connections. The
similarities between the Egyptian Min (with his consort Isis), the
Babylonian Nimrod (supposedly married his mother), Adonis (with his
consort
Astarte), the Canaanite Ba'al (with his consort Asherah), and YHWH
(with HIS
consort Asherah) are rather remarkable.
Each of these stories (and numerous others like them throughout the
ancient
near east) share a certain tradition of how the FATHER becomes the
SON.
Christianity precisely follows this same pattern (well... some effort
is
made to tidy it up a bit). The pattern is one in which the FATHER
becomes
the SON via his OWN WIFE.
Let me repeat that: He BEGETS HIMSELF, and is BORN through his
CONSORT, who
then becomes not only his WIFE, but also his MOTHER.
Consider carefully: MARY is both the WIFE of God and the MOTHER of
God. How
FASCINATING. Who'da thought it.
(Just a side-point: another funny thing about these traditions is how
the
god gets torn into bits, and is either ingested, or resurrected, or
both).
This is close to a Masonic secret. It is associated with the HONEY
BEE,
which has invariably been a symbol of it in Babylon, Egypt, Syria,
Israel
and elsewhere. Another essential part of this secret is discussed in
1 Kings
7:13-14 and 17:20-23 and in the NT and elsewhere.
So, before you honk too loudly about Min the BULL of his MOTHER, you
might
wish to reflect seriously on the conception and birth and death and
resurrection of a certain widow's son named JESUS.
Of course, one of the BEST modern-day variations of this story is the
Mormon
ADAM-GOD tradition... but that's a telling for another day.
Oh, and as for the "pose" (you know, "is it a weenie, is it an arm")
-- I
have a copy of Edelman's "The Triumph of Elohim" which has a very
interesting picture of a Persian-period coin minted in Yehud some
time
between 400 and 300 BC. I say interesting, because it has a picture
of
YAHWEH on the obverse, seated squarely on winged wheel, bearing a
bird in
the cupped hand of His outstretched left arm. However, rather than
His right
hand being raised to the square, it appears to be beneath --and
supporting--
His left elbow.
This not only reminded me of Min (minus the willy, of course), but it
most
definately reminded me of the Temple -- which is the point several
posters
have made here repeatedly.
It's a BIG MYSTIC CONSPIRACY, folks! If you are a JEW or a BUDDHIST
or a
CHRISTIAN or a MORMON -- it seems that there is someone standing
behind the
curtain telling a similar story.
Cheers,
Joe "I musta been drinking too much WINE" Swick
The grape that can with logic absolute
The two-and-seventy sects confute;
The subtle alchemist that in a trice
Life's leaden metal into gold transmute -- Rubaiyat
Subject:
Re: Min the Mormon God
Date:
Sat, 22 May 1999 11:05:32 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man ,
Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna
References:
1
Thanx for posting this to the mutant list, Joe. As you know, I love
this stuff, and lap it up everytime. Please feel free to post any
follow up that you feel is appropriate. I'm not on ARM, and I know
that
is true of several others as well.
Regards,
proclus
Joe Steve Swick III wrote:
>
> ___Mark "Mr. Spambot" Hines___
> Concerning the previously posted article below, I'm still waiting
to see
> the very best reply from a Mormon apologist. Why is it acceptable
to
> represent God with Min [in Facsimile 2]? How can Mormons
represent
> God with Min, a pagan god who has an erect penis?
>
> ___Rich___
> piece o' cake, Mark: Claim that the penis sort of looks like
God's arm.
> ----
>
> Actually, considering what we know of Min, I can understand why God
would be
> represented by such. Min has strong Canaanite connections. The
> similarities between the Egyptian Min (with his consort Isis), the
> Babylonian Nimrod (supposedly married his mother), Adonis (with his
consort
> Astarte), the Canaanite Ba'al (with his consort Asherah), and YHWH
(with HIS
> consort Asherah) are rather remarkable.
>
> Each of these stories (and numerous others like them throughout the
ancient
> near east) share a certain tradition of how the FATHER becomes the
SON.
> Christianity precisely follows this same pattern (well... some
effort is
> made to tidy it up a bit). The pattern is one in which the FATHER
becomes
> the SON via his OWN WIFE.
>
> Let me repeat that: He BEGETS HIMSELF, and is BORN through his
CONSORT, who
> then becomes not only his WIFE, but also his MOTHER.
>
> Consider carefully: MARY is both the WIFE of God and the MOTHER of
God. How
> FASCINATING. Who'da thought it.
>
> (Just a side-point: another funny thing about these traditions is
how the
> god gets torn into bits, and is either ingested, or resurrected, or
both).
>
> This is close to a Masonic secret. It is associated with the HONEY
BEE,
> which has invariably been a symbol of it in Babylon, Egypt, Syria,
Israel
> and elsewhere. Another essential part of this secret is discussed
in 1 Kings
> 7:13-14 and 17:20-23 and in the NT and elsewhere.
>
> So, before you honk too loudly about Min the BULL of his MOTHER,
you might
> wish to reflect seriously on the conception and birth and death and
> resurrection of a certain widow's son named JESUS.
>
> Of course, one of the BEST modern-day variations of this story is
the Mormon
> ADAM-GOD tradition... but that's a telling for another day.
>
> Oh, and as for the "pose" (you know, "is it a weenie, is it an
arm") -- I
> have a copy of Edelman's "The Triumph of Elohim" which has a very
> interesting picture of a Persian-period coin minted in Yehud some
time
> between 400 and 300 BC. I say interesting, because it has a
picture of
> YAHWEH on the obverse, seated squarely on winged wheel, bearing a
bird in
> the cupped hand of His outstretched left arm. However, rather than
His right
> hand being raised to the square, it appears to be beneath --and
supporting--
> His left elbow.
>
> This not only reminded me of Min (minus the willy, of course), but
it most
> definately reminded me of the Temple -- which is the point several
posters
> have made here repeatedly.
>
> It's a BIG MYSTIC CONSPIRACY, folks! If you are a JEW or a BUDDHIST
or a
> CHRISTIAN or a MORMON -- it seems that there is someone standing
behind the
> curtain telling a similar story.
>
> Cheers,
> Joe "I musta been drinking too much WINE" Swick
>
> The grape that can with logic absolute
> The two-and-seventy sects confute;
> The subtle alchemist that in a trice
> Life's leaden metal into gold transmute -- Rubaiyat
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Version: 3.1
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M++
V--
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h---
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Subject:
The God Archaeologically Speaking
Date:
Sat, 22 May 1999 12:08:55 -0600
From:
Kerry Shirts
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man , Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna ,
'proclus'
I dunno if you guys are ready for this or even wanting it, but here
is my
FAIR paper for our conference in three weeks. Look it over if you'd
like
and tell me how far out in limbo I really am......GRIN!
Kerry A. Shirts
Eternal Family double spaced.doc
Name:
Eternal Family double
spaced.doc
Type:
Microsoft Word Document
(application/msword)
Encoding:
base64
Subject:
RE: Min the Mormon God
Date:
Sat, 22 May 1999 12:16:53 -0600
From:
Kerry Shirts
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man , Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna ,
'proclus'
Thanx for posting this to the mutant list, Joe. As you know, I love
this stuff, and lap it up everytime. Please feel free to post any
follow up that you feel is appropriate. I'm not on ARM, and I know
that
is true of several others as well.
Regards,
proclus
Kerry:
HERE! HERE! See more below
Joe Steve Swick III wrote:
>
> Actually, considering what we know of Min, I can understand why God
would
be
> represented by such. Min has strong Canaanite connections. The
> similarities between the Egyptian Min (with his consort Isis), the
> Babylonian Nimrod (supposedly married his mother), Adonis (with his
consort
> Astarte), the Canaanite Ba'al (with his consort Asherah), and YHWH
(with
HIS
> consort Asherah) are rather remarkable.
Kerry:
Yes! I gave you all my FAIR paper which deals PRECISELY with this
with some
rather extensive (yes over 500 footnotes and sources) dealing with
this...
> (Just a side-point: another funny thing about these traditions is
how the
> god gets torn into bits, and is either ingested, or resurrected, or
both).
>
> This is close to a Masonic secret. It is associated with the HONEY
BEE,
> which has invariably been a symbol of it in Babylon, Egypt, Syria,
Israel
> and elsewhere. Another essential part of this secret is discussed
in 1
Kings
> 7:13-14 and 17:20-23 and in the NT and elsewhere.
Kerry:
Incredible! This tie in I also have discussed a little bit and I have
another researcher discussing this honey bee with Neith the Egyptian
Goddess for our FAIR newsletter "Apologia" next month. This is
interesting!
I had no idea the Masons also had this. I may have to seriously
become one
now......
(snip the rest of this fascinating stuff for now - THANKS Joe!)
Kerry A. Shirts
Subject:
Deseret the HONEY BEE
Date:
Sat, 22 May 1999 12:18:51 -0600
From:
Kerry Shirts
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man , Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna ,
'proclus'
To tie in with Joe's interesting stuff on the Bee, here is an
anrticle I wrote some time ago. I hope this all comes in.
To Bee, or not to Bee: History in the Book of Mormon,
Pearl of Great Price Noting The Deseret Connection
C. Wilfred Griggs has noted that our acceptance of the BofM is a
spiritual, not an academic, matter. (in Susan Easton Black, ed.,
"Expressions of Faith:Testimonies of LDS Scholars", Deseret Book,
1996, p. 201). This granted, it is important to also realize that our
purposes of inquiring into historicity with the BofM is not to
subject revelation to the constraints of reason or scholarship, but
rather to use the techniques of scholarship as a limited means to a
spiritual end. (John Welch in "Warfare in the Book of Mormon",
Deseret Book, 1990, p. 17). There is a great need of blending both
our faith and our knowledge. Of blending a healthy skepticism and
doubt
with a belief and desire to learn more. Balance is sought after, even
though it is not always acquired and kept.
Noel B. Reynolds has perhaps said it best:
"...higher levels of religiousity among Latter Day S aints - as
measured
by devotion to private prayer, scripture study, tithe paying, church
attendance, and other forms of religious observance - are directly
correlated with higher levels of education. It may be an anomaly, but
it is
true of the Latter Day Saint community that the more educated a
person
is, the more likely he or she is to be fully observant and
faithful...
Mormonism is a religion of both the spirit and the intellect."
(in Black, "Expressions of Faith", p. x)
That all said, it is a most amazing thing that we have in our
scriptures
one of the most unusual yet interesting historical aspects ever
mentioned, learned of, or discussed, that of Deseret, the Honey
Bee, the Jaredite interpretation (Ether 2:3). This Deseret also
enjoyed
a serious ritual importance and was quite prominant in the Egyptian
Civilization, who likewise associated this Deseret with the
*honeybee*.
Now the so-called authors of the Second Civilization, seems to have
entered Egypt from the northeast as part of a great expansion of
the peoples outward that sent the makers of the classical Baby-
lonian civilization into Mesoptamia. So, we have the founders of the
two parent civilizations of antiquity entering their new homelands
approximately at the same time from some common center. The
Egyptian pioneers carried with them a fully developed cult and
symbolism from their Asiatic homeland. (Hugh Nibley - "Lehi in
the Desert and the World of the Jaredites", Bookcraft, 1952, p. 184).
The chief cult object they had with them was the bee. In fact, the
land
that they first settled in Egypt was forever after known as "the land
of
the bee", and the designated hieroglyph was a picture of the bee. And
every king of Egypt in his capacity as king of Upper and Lower Egypt
bore the title "he who belongs to the sedge and the bee." Sir Alan
Gardiner doesn't know how or where the connection with the bee
comes in, but he acknowledges that it is certainly there. the title
is "n-sw-bit", and one can readily see the bee in the hieroglyphic
title
that Gardiner uses here. (Alan Gardiner, "Egyptian Grammar",
3rd ed., 1994, p. 73).
Now the sound of the bee picture has been discussed for years, with
no clear indications as to what it might be. In fact, the
Egyptologist
Sethe even says that the Egyptians themselves had forgotten the
original word, and Grapow designates the bee title of honor as
"unreadable". (Nibley - "World of the Jaredites", p. 185). But how
could such a popular and very important yet quite common word
be forgotten? Actually, it happens all the time in the history of
cult
and ritual, namely, the avoidance or even the prohibiting of the
sacred
word! The bee sign was not always written down, but in its place the
picture of the Red Crown, the majesty of Lower Egypt was sometimes
substituted for superstitious reasons. While we are lacking the name
of the Bee symbol, we do know what the Red Crown was called. It
is *dsrt*. When the crown appears in the place of the bee, it is
sometimes
called "bit bee". (Nibley, p. 185). "Bit bee" = "bi'ty" as we shall
see in the
hieroglyphic inscriptions below.
The crown has an antennae on it, such as in Margaret Bunson's
"Encyclopedia
of Ancient Egypt", Facts on File, Oxford, 1991, p. 59. She calls it
"deshret".
In E.A. Wallis Budge's "Hieroglyphic Vocabulary to the Book of the
Dead", we
find that he also calls this crown "Deshret", the Red Crown, i.e.,
the Crown of
Lower Egypt, p. 448. W.V. Davies in his text "Reading the Past:
Egyptian
Hieroglyphics", Univ. of California Press, 1987, p. 44f, notes that
the most
important name for the king in Egypt is "nswt-bi'ty, King of Upper
and Lower
Egypt". In the hieroglyph, you can see the bee. Also in the
hieroglyphic
inscription from a stela mentioning year nineteen of King Nubkaure
(Ammenemes II). Twelfth Dynasty:
"h 3t-sp 19 hr hm n ntr nswt-bi'ty Nbw-k3w-r'"
The bi'ty is the bee in the hieroglyph, which Davies pictures at the
top of the
page. So while the crown can be the equivilant to the bee (usually
having
the antennae on it), the bee is never called "dsrt". Well this
suggests
particular avoidance, especially since "dsrt" also means "red", a
word
peculiarly applicable to bees. Well this correlates very well with
the Jews
refusing to give us the proper Hebrew name of God YHWH. It is not to
even
be pronounced, and in fact Adonai is the substitute for this name.
Now interestingly, the bee symbol spread out from its homeland into
prominant places in the royal mysteries of the Hittites, and turning
up
in the Kalevala, and even into the Easter rites of other nations. The
bee
in all of these is the agent through which the dead hero or king is
resurrected from the dead. Interestingly, the original "deseret"
people,
the founders of the Second Civilization, the intellectuals of On
(Heliopolis)
claimed that their king, and he alone, possessed the secret of
resurrection.
In fact, that was the cornerstone of their religion, it being nothing
less than
the king's secret, the power over death. So to summarize:
1. The Jaredites in their wanderings took with them the honeybee
which
they called in their language, "Deseret", as well as hives of bees.
2. The founders of the Second Civilization of Egypt had the bee as
the
symbol of their land, their king, and their empire, to all of which
they
applied the designation "deseret", or something very close to it.
3. Though they never called the bee itself "dsrt", the sign of which
is
often "for superstitious reasons" written in its place is so
designated.
4. The bee sign was always regarded by the Egyptians as very sacred:
As a determinative, according to Sethe, it is significant to note
that it
is always placed *before* any of the others. As is well known, such
priority is the prerogative of the holiest objects only in the
writing of
hieroglyphic. Its extreme sacredness and its role in top-secret
ritual
imply, nay, all but demand, that suppression of its true name in the
reading
of texts.
Both the honeybee and "dsrt" seem quite at home in the twilight
world of prehistory.
(Nibley, "World of the Jaredites", pp. 188f).
And what do we find in the Pearl of Great Price? Astoundingly, more
of
the same!
In the Book of Abraham, we are told that a woman found Egypt:
"The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the
duaghter
of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies
Egypt,
which signifies that which is forbidden.
When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward
settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which
preserved the curse in the land.
Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharoah, the
eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the
manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
Sethe in his great work "Urgeschichte" has treated this very subject
at length. He contends that the key to the whole affair is the
bee and the red "Dsrt" Crown: The bee, he believes, is the sign of
the LADY Neith, identified with Hathor, called "the Ruling Lady of
the Universe," which Sethe says this figure must go back to the
prehistoric rule of women in Egypt.
But this is best had for part 2. The connections come thick, hard and
at lightning speed!
PART 2
We saw in part 1 that the bee, the red "Dsrt" (Deseret) Crown of
Lower
Egypt and the sacredness and tie in with resurrection were all part
of the
story, not only from the BofM Jaredite view, but the Ancient Second
Civilization of Egypt as well. We also began to see the connection
with the woman who founded the government of Egypt after she had
found the country under water. We continue from there:
In the "Journal of Egyptian Archaeology", Vol. 9, Plate XX,
Wainwright has shown a pot which has the Red Crown (Dsrt Crown)
clearly depicted which is from Prehistoric Nakada thus showing this
to be one of the oldest known symbols of royalty. It is the crown of
the
Lady Neith and is often substituted for the sign of the bee.
This indicates that the great shrine at Koptos, right across the
river
from Nakada, which is only a cemetary,
may have been the original captial of the Lady. And most interesting
for us, and especially the Facsimile 2, the Hypocephalus, of all
things (!),
this was the shrine of Min, the oldest God of Egypt, who later became
Ammon (good BofM name!), and whose symbol was an arrow, as was
Neith's. Neith was the prehistoric lady of Koptos. The bee comes in
with
the kings who actually bore the title of "the bee", but only,
according to
Sethe, AFTER they had usurped the authority of the Lady Neith. (the
woman who discovered Egypt under water according to Joseph Smith's
BofA! 1:23) In fact, Neith's name is actually the title "N.t", the
SAME name
as given to the prehistoric red crown, though it is usually called
the Dsrt
Crown. Actually the title "Queen-Bee" was originally given to the
Matriarchal
lines of rule until that was usurped by the lady's sons. Or in the
BofA:
"Now Pharoah being of that lineage by which he could not have the
right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharoahs would fain claim it
from Noah, through Ham [the son of Egyptus - the woman, vs. 25]..."
(Abr. 1:27).
Note here there is nothing racist about it at all! The rule in Egypt
was
historically the Matriarchal rule, from which line the SON of
Egyptus,
the DAUGHTER of Ham, came through. The Fathers that Abraham is
so obssessed with in the first 5 verses was the Patriarchal
Priesthood.
This was the priesthood that Pharoah was prevented from holding due
to his authority coming through the Matriarchal lines. The BofA is
exactly correct in depicting the entire HISTORICAL situation, based
on
current historical, philological, and archaeological discoveries in
the last
50 years, long after Joseph Smith was dead. But I digress.....
However, it is quite possible that the bee symbol came from the
invading
migrants who united it with the Red Crown and other props of the Lady
of Koptos. Interestingly, bee in Egyptian is a feminine noun, which
cannot
suit a king as its original possessor. The sedge-and-bee titles given
to
the Pharoahs does not designate them as being actually bees but
rather
as "belonging to the bee" or "descended from the bee". Geb, and
Osiris
were both guilty of usurping the bee-crown of the Lady, just as they
usurped
her throne.
So what do we have? Four things definitely go together at the
beginning of
Egypt's history.
1. The Bee
2. The Dsrt Crown
3. The derivation of Pharoah's authority from a woman
4. The identification of that woman with the lady of Koptos from
which or
whom Egypt got its name
(NOTE: Every single item is also found in Joseph Smith's Book of
Abraham, Ch. 1)
Egypt does not get its name from "Kmt" - "Black" as is traditionally
maintained.
The name comes from Koptos which is the oldest shrine and capital of
Egypt.
Many ancient cities are named after persons - hundreds of them in
fact - but
only when that person is the founder of the city. And it is basically
agreed
that the great invasions of Egypt in prehistoric times came by way of
the
Wadi Hammamat. From there, the first place one would settle down
would
be Koptos, the very place where the Wadi Hammamat opens on the Nile
Valley. (keep in mind Abr. 1:23-25). (H. Nibley "There Were
Jaredites",
in the "Improvement Era", April 1956, p. 244f).
So lets get back to Min. Min was from prehistoric times the bee
keeper.
He even lived in a beehive house in Koptos. Of course, by now we are
familiar
with the principle parts here, the bee, the crown, and the honey
incidentally,
whose words are all read the same way, whether as n.t, bi.t or khb.t,
all
had the feminine endings, with the crown itself personified as the
goddess,
and at the same time identical with the bee.
The bee, we are told, is the inspiration and sponsor of the great
migration. As a
creature of the preexistent or preDiluvian world, and all but the
sole survivor of
the great catastrophes that desolated the earth anciently, the bee is
the first
to arrive on the scene and get things going again in the new world.
In the first of
all migrations we are told, Adam and Eve were accompanied and guided
by
the bees as they moved from the Garden of Eden and into the lone and
dreary
world. The bees brought with them the primordial creative divine
power; their
honey, made by the bees of paradise, which is the food of heaven.
The Hittite version of the story has the bees helping guide Adam and
Eve
because they had lived in the Old world before it was destroyed and
knew
their whereabouts.
Most interesting, the traditions of the Old World are also matched by
those
in the New World, where the Mayan book the Chilam Balam, begins with
the
settling of the land by bee swarms of the four directions, each of a
different color. The word for the bee is feminine incidentally with a
feminine
prefix!We are also told that the Bacabs, who hail from the four
directions,
(this number four being a most important number to the Egyptians as
well
Cf. Fac. #1, figs. 5,6,7,8 with Fac. #2, fig. 6) who were
representatives of the
Gods. They were beekeepers as well and their name connects to bees of
honey. (H. Nibley - "Abraham in Egypt", Deseret, 1981, p. 231).
BEES AND THE RESURRECTION:
The bees offer the most tempting and invigorating food from
putrefying
corpses, which was more than just a symbol in the mysteries. It was
an actual process of resurrection! The bee "born from the ox" in
sacred
caves sets the scene fro the mysteries. Interestingly in an
inscription from
the Temple of Denderah, near Coptos (note this again!), we read
"Osiris
emulates the bee in the Temple, giving instructions for knowing the
hsp
(sacred garden) of the Bee in the Other World, in the House of
Snhty", this
last being written with the bee hieroglyph. The bee born from the
skin of
the animal is the sign of the resurrection. Everywhere the Bee is the
preserver and restorer of life. Nut appears as the Bee, and in a
Pyramid
Text, the king, the lady and the bee are fused into one. On first
awakening
after he is resurrected, the King cries out "Bees!" They simply
swarmed the
place!
And these themes invaded the Christian church as well. They also
became the
dominant Jewish symbol. The original shrine of the mysteries at
Delphi was
constructed og beeswax by those devoted insects. St. Jerome was
puzzled
and disturbed by the way bees invaded the Easter Service of the
Church.
He commented in 384 A.D. that Nothing is harder to explain than why
at the Easter service Christians are regaled by bee stories. They
came from
the monks in the Egyptian desert to be sure, who singing their hymns
all
the day long, gathering the sweets of religion from every bloom of
scripture,
coming off conquerors in the manner of Deborah, the Bee-Lady, and
preparing
honey for Christ. In fact, to support his theory that the Elusinian
Mysteries
came from Crete, A. Persson observed that the Greeks to this day hold
their
most solemn Easter Rites in the very bee cave in Crete in which Rhea
gave
birth to Zeus. And who isn't aware that Amalthea fed him with milk
and
honey even as Amitla fed the infant Abraham? (H. Nibley - "Abraham in
Egypt", p. 233f).
Who is not also aware that Abraham's mother's name is Amitla?
Abraham,
in the legends is living in a cave and being fed milk and honey by
her
finger in fact. This is an exact parallel with the infant Horus from
Ancient
Egypt. The rites and mysteries are everwhere overlapping from Greek
to
Crete, Egypt, and Semitic. If the earliest traditions of migrations
of peoples
insist on harping on the bees - and even the Hebrew word for the
migrating
of the hordes is "Bee-swarms" - zibariah - see Exodus 23:28! Then
Joseph
Smith puts us right in the picture for he told us not of just one,
but of *two*
separate migrations taking place shortly after the flood, starting
from about
the same place, from the Tower, but moving in opposite directions.
Both parties
t oiled through the deser ts of a blighted earth under dark and violent
skies, moving towards promised lands. And the intimate and peculiar
link
between the two migrations is the friendly bee. Interestingly, the
Latter Day
Saints, ever settling and ever on the move, adopted the bee symbol
from the
beginning. The beehive symbol was everywhere in their newly settled
arid
land of Deseret.
When Sirius and the sun combined their heat to destroy the world, the
wandering hero Aristaeus sought out the all-wise Proteus at the end
of
the earth seeking an oracle concerning the exhausted state of things,
and
was told to make certain chthonian sacrifices, after which vast
swarms
of bees came forth and restored the fertility in the lands. This is
Virgil's
account in the Georgics. In Greece, as elsewhere, the oldest of all
religious centers was established when the Bee-maidens, the
daughters of Melissaeus and nurses of Zeus swarmed at the sacred
oak of Dodona. The first oracular shrine in Israel was founded by
Deborah, the Bee, where she died on the migration from Egypt at the
sacred Oak of Deborah. The Bee-Mother was flourishing all over the
Mediterranean in prehistoric times. The legends all speak of bee-led
migrations (cf. the Jaredites) at the dawn of history, seeking not
commerce but refuge from storm and starvation - survival.
What ties all this together is, of all people, is Asenath, the Queen
of
the Deseret hive. Then and now, as the mother of Ephraim and
Manasseh by Joseph, whom she married in a swarm of bees, bringing
her honey and uncovering her person to do her reference. She is the
servant of the Goddess Neith (THE Bee-Mother!).
Why has the bee been brought back into our consciousness in the
Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ? Well repeated echoes from the
remote past keep reminding us that the office and calling of the bee
was to bring about the stirrings of life, reviving the biological
cycle in a
world that has been totally ravaged by the cosmic forces of
destruction.
Is, then, Deseret waiting in the wings, held in reserve against the
day,
soon to come, when its salutary services will be once again required?
>From the first, the bee symbol captivated the imagination of the LDS
in
their migrations and settlements. The emblematic hive became the seal
of the Territory and State and adorned every importance edifice
within the
vast expanse of "our lovely Deseret".
Finally by what strange coincidence does the "History of the Church"
end
with the sign of the bee? After the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum
Smith, "The bodies... were removed.... at Emma's request, to near the
Mansion House, and buried side by side, and the bee house was then
moved
and placed over their graves. (H. Nibley - "Abraham in Egypt", pp.
243ff)
The breathtaking nd staggering amounts of correlations with history,
the
Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price are nowhere surpassed
than
with this splendid thing.... Deseret, the honeybee. How on living
earth could
Smith have put it all together so well? Not only is bee mentioned
ONLY
in the correct place it could have been in the BofM, the Jaredites,
i.e.,
back in ancient times, but having it in the BofA, with all the
historical
correlations with that text as well as the facsimiles is utterly
mindboggling!
Who has ever performed such sheer daring and incredible accurate
restoration
of history, myth, ritual, religion, and apocalyptic? The bee is in
the only place
it could be in the scriptures. With the migrations. With the ancient
peoples.
It is associated with the only people that Smith could have gotten
away with.
He gets this correct as well. Where is there error? Here is pure
history in
all its grandeur. Here is real restoration of ancient concepts long
ago
forgotten but resurrected to our consciousness with an eloquence and
greatness that is only now being discovered. It is an incredible
testimony
that any of this fits. It is staggering that it all fits.
Kerry A. "Amazed at that BofM and BofA" Shirts
Subject:
Re: Min the Mormon God
Date:
Sat, 22 May 1999 17:11:16 -0700
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
Kerry Shirts ,
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
onandagus@webtv.net, "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man ,
Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna ,
'proclus'
References:
1
In all the ten directions of the universe,
there is only one truth.
When we see clearly, the great teachings are the
same.
What can ever be lost? What can be attained?
If we attain something, it was there from
the beginning of time.
If we lose something, it is hiding somewhere
near us.
Look: this ball in my pocket:
can you see how priceless it is? -- Ryokan
___JSW___
Actually, considering what we know of Min, I can understand why God
would be
represented by such. Min has strong Canaanite connections. The
similarities between the Egyptian Min (with his consort Isis), the
Babylonian Nimrod (supposedly married his mother), Adonis (with his
consort
Astarte), the Canaanite Ba'al (with his consort Asherah), and YHWH
(with HIS
consort Asherah) are rather remarkable.
___KS___
Yes! I gave you all my FAIR paper which deals PRECISELY with this
with some
rather extensive (yes over 500 footnotes and sources) dealing with
this...
___JSW___
(Just a side-point: another funny thing about these traditions is how
the
god gets torn into bits, and is either ingested, or resurrected, or
both).
This is close to a Masonic secret. It is associated with the HONEY
BEE,
which has invariably been a symbol of it in Babylon, Egypt, Syria,
Israel
and elsewhere. Another essential part of this secret is discussed in
1 Kings
7:13-14 and 17:20-23 and in the NT and elsewhere.
___Kerry___
Incredible! This tie in I also have discussed a little bit and I have
another researcher discussing this honey bee with Neith the Egyptian
Goddess
for our FAIR newsletter "Apologia" next month.
-----
And of course (you already knew this but) there is that amazing
resurrection
theme playing out in the story of Samson, who sees the honey in the
dead
carcase of a young lion, with bees all swarming about (Judges 14:
5-14). You
remember that this is the basis of his riddle -- out of the eater
came forth
meat, and sweetness out of the strong. Or maybe it's just a
coincidence.
___Kerry___
This is interesting! I had no idea the Masons also had this.
-----
For what we do presage is not in gross,
For we be brethren of the Rosie Cross;
We have the Mason word, and second sight
Things for to come we can fortell aright.
The lamentable truth is that most Masons don't HAVE anything -- just
as most
members of the Church don't have anything. (Hey, don't look at *me*
-- I'm
just an egotistical poser showing off for the crowds.) But yes, there
is
plenty to occupy the attention for those who knocked on the Lodge
door for
something besides a chance to ride in the Shrinemobile and wear a
funky red
fez. Masonic Bees? Of course we have 'em, hive and all. The connexion
of the
bee with ancient mysteries has been an interest in the Fraternity
since at
least the days of George Oliver.
I should mention (and save Bro.'. Art the perverse pleasure), the
whole
mystical tradition has been scrapped by the zealous Masonic scholars
of the
"authentic school." Nothing to mystical masonry at all, as John
Hamill is
pleased to remind us. While the earliest "authentic" Masonic records
mention the Craft in the same breath with the Hermeticists and
Rosicrucians,
in retrospect the whole lot of them appear to have been charlatans
and
scammers. Sort of like me. No authentic mystical connexions
whatsoever.
Most modern Masons are embarrassed by the fanciful stories of early
Brothers
whose tales most moderns believe amount to zeal without knowledge.
According
to such individuals, "Beez is beez. They symbolize industry -- what
the hell
more do you want?" Others keep their mouths shut, but secretly think
to
themselves, "invenimus."
Me? I rather think that there is more to the old traditions than meet
the
eye. They are much more than fantastical tellings divorced from any
objective reality. Of course, I similarly think that anyone who is
seriously worried about whether the NT story of Jesus walking on the
water
is LITERALLY, HISTORICALLY true, has likely missed the thrust of the
story,
which has little to do with the mechanics of human water-walking.
___Kerry___
I may have to seriously become one now......
-----
I thought you agreed with Arden Eby, that Freemasonry was just an old
men's
luncheon club, with an awkward mishmash of poorly-done rituals?
I
believe Enoch Shemna told me straight up he thinks I have the Devil
for a
master, and lie to conceal the fact. Me? I blab far too much to
actually
know anything. You guys should be kind to us loudmouth wandering
malcontents.
But, yes, Kerry, out of the many acquaintences I have, I honestly
believe
that with some patience, you would be the *most* likely to benefit
from the
awkward mishmash of poorly-done Masonic rituals. Talk to Art. Read
Heredom.
Read AQC. Read the Prestonian Lectures. Read other stuff. Several
traditions
would really turn your gears, including the Enoch tradition found in
the
Royal Arch, Royal Master and Select Master's degree (and elsewhere).
Then
again, other Mormons I know who have received the same degrees I
have, later
confess to me that they were dissappointed; they were hoping they
would find
a Masonic Endowment, with a key to understanding the Temple ritual
better,
but came to conclude that Masonry wasn't anything at all like
Mormonism.
Hmmm. There is the tradition that Masonry began in the Garden of
Eden, when
God taught the Divine Science of "Geometry" to Adam, who wrote it in
a book,
and passed it on to his posterity. Masons likewise had a tradition
that
Enoch succeeded Adam as Grand Master, and that prior to the Great
Flood,
they met together in a great council, in which Adam prophesied what
lay in
the future for his posterity.
Of course, Eugene Seaich -- relying heavily on the scholarship of
Carr,
Knoop, Jones, and Hamer-- has made much of the early Masonic Noah
tradition,
in his interesting but misleading paper on Mormonism and Masonry.
Unless
this is unfamiliar to anyone, I won't bother repeating his claims. It
was
unfortunate that he was not as considerate of Masonic secrets as he
would
have liked Masons to be of Mormon secrets.
What Masons in Joseph Smith's day believed about Ham/Egypt and
Masonry makes
me seriously think that Blacks and the Priesthood are a peripheral
concern
of the Book of Abraham. There is a much more pressing issue one needs
first
be acquainted with before the text can make sense... but that's a
discussion
for another day.
Another interesting tradition has to do with the Tower of Babel.
Note this
interesting Masonic satire from 1722:
If Hist'ry be no ancient Fable,
Free Masons came from Tower of Babel;
When first that Fabrick was begun,
The Greatest underneath the Sun
.....
But after They some Years had spent
In Labor, with a good Intent,
And found that all their Lab'ring Pain,
Was still, alas! bestowed in vain,
They then resolv'd no more to rome,
But to return to their own Home:
Tho' first they Signs and Marks did frame,
To signify from whence they came;
THAT WHERESOE'R THESE MEN SHOULD GO,
THEY ALWAYS MIGHT THEIR BRETH'REN KNOW;
And this was well contriv'd for want
Of Learning, for the Ignorant,
That WITHOUT SPEAKING EVERY TONGUE,
(As by an ancient Bard is sung)
ALL MASONS MIGHT OF EV'RY LAND
THEIR MEANING EVER UNDERSTAND;
And that it shou'd a Secret be
Amongst themselves, they did agree.
In other words, it appears that there was an early Masonic tradition,
that
the Craft developed certain signs and marks -- a SECRET LANGUAGE-- to
preserve their secrets among the Brethren in spite of the confounding
of
tongues.
Yep. A little something for everybody. Like the saying goes, "si
talia
jungere possis sit tibi scire satis."
Aha.
Joe "Ramblin Man" Swick
Subject:
Mormon/Mason Bees
Date:
Sun, 23 May 1999 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT)
From:
ArtdeHoyos@aol.com
To:
jswick@cris.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, timquick@cwnet.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com,
mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com,
rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, 74277.3365@compuserve.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org,
proclus@mac.com
Greetings, all,
Over the past few months I've had little time to respond to anyone.
I was
recently hired as the full-time Archivist and Historian of the
Supreme
Council, 33°, Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Southern
Jurisdiction
(Mother Council of the World). We're moving to the Washington, DC
metropolitan area this summer, and are wrapping up our concerns in
Texas.
In a message dated 5/22/99 7:13:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
jswick@cris.com
writes:
> Masonic Bees? Of course we have 'em, hive and all. The connexion of
the
> bee with ancient mysteries has been an interest in the Fraternity
since at
> least the days of George Oliver.
Of course, my Bro.'.Joe is correct. The bees, the hives, etc. are
still
prominent Masonic symbols in the USA. There is ritualistic evidence
that
this tradition came from Scotland, and that they had an esoteric
tradition
connected with them.
And speaking of Mormon bees, this week I finally watched "Plan 10
From Outer
Space." For those unfamiliar with this movie, it was filmed in Salt
Lake in
1995, and concerns a young inactive Mormon girl's attempt to discover
"the
secret of the bees." Both Mormon and Masonic symbolism is prominent
throughout the film. But don't expect any "light" here! It is
intended as a
spoof, and stars Karen Black as "Nehor" the space alien, who was
Brigham
Young's 28th wife! If you want a laugh, I recommend it
wholeheartedly.
> I should mention (and save Bro.'. Art the perverse pleasure), the
whole
> mystical tradition has been scrapped by the zealous Masonic
scholars of the
> "authentic school."
Bro.'.Joe, you sure have me pegged!
Incidentally, if you'd like to read about recent revisions to the
Scottish
Rite Rituals, see the article entitled, "The Revised Standard Pike
Ritual",
at:
http://www.srmason-sj.org/council/journal/may99/contents.htm
Also, you can read about the latest "bonus book" for members of the
Scottish
Rite Research Society, at:
http://www.srmason-sj.org/council/resrch1.htm
Non-Masons *are* allowed to join the Scottish Rite Research Society.
---Art deHoyos.'.
Subject:
RE: Min the Mormon God
Date:
Mon, 24 May 1999 03:03:24 -0400
From:
Robert R Black ?.3365@compuserve.com>
To:
Kerry Shirts
CC:
Robert R Black ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Joe Steve Swick III , Dave ,
Beth any , Beth ,
ArtdeHoyos ,
Andy Mcguire ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"Michael J. P ierce" ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
'proclus' ,
Enoch Shemna ,
Ken Shaw , rpc man
Message text written by Kerry Shirts
> our FAIR newsletter "Apologia" next month.<
What FAIR newsletter ? How do we subscribe.
Robert.
Subject:
Baphomet
Date:
Mon, 24 May 1999 08:58:20 -0500 (CDT)
From:
kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
jswick@cris.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, timquick@cwnet.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com,
mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com,
rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, 74277.3365@compuserve.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org,
proclus@mac.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com
Baphomet: A "Mystery" Solved At Last?
This article originally appeared in Annuit Coeptis, the
official publication of
Whiskey Rebellion Camp, Pittsburgh PA Ordo Templi Orientis.
© 1995)
Sooner or later every student of either the esoteric or the
history of the Crusades
encounters the name of an allegedly sinister entity known as
"Baphomet".
Baphomet was said to be the "god" or "idol" of the Knights
Templar, but has also
been described as "the goat of Mendes", "the god of the
witches", a latter-day
version of the Greek god Pan, a symbol of an alchemical
principal, and even Satan
himself. And while each of these has a following, there is
evidence suggesting the
possibility that Baphomet's origins are not only not
sinister, but human rather
than supernatural.
The "mystery" of Baphomet begins in 1307 with the demise of
the Knights
Templar. The military order of "warrior monks" was founded in
1118 in France
after the First Crusade to protect European pilgrims on their
way to and from the
Holy Land. For nearly two centuries the Templars grew in
size, strength, political
clout, reputation (good at first, but bad towards the end),
but most of all in wealth,
and this would prove to be their undoing. In the early
fourteenth century King
Philip IV of France, who was deeply in debt to the Templars,
decided to not only
cancel that debt but seize their wealth and property for
himself and having his
puppet pontiff Clement V dissolve the order. To do this,
Philip would have to have
the Templars convicted of heresy. With "evidence" gathered
from agents who
infiltrated the Templars, along with a sworn deposition from
a disgruntled
ex-Templar on whose testimony his prosecutors could build a
case, Philip made
his move. Acting on sealed orders they were not to open until
the previous
midnight, Philip's officials arrested every Templar they
could during the dawning
hours of Friday, October 13, 1307. While some of the charges,
such as sodomy
and desecration of Christian symbols, were obviously silly
even to many people at
the time, other allegations, such as the chanting of
"Yallah!" (Daraul, 1961),
sounded like descriptions of documented Sufi Muslim practices
(Khan, 1974). But
it is the charge of worshipping an idol called "Baphomet"
that has inspired the
most controversy.
At first, "Baphomet" was simply a head, and presumably a
human one, but under
the duress of torture, Baphomet's descriptions became
progressively elaborate
and fantastic. Nearly every historian who has written on the
subject has
dismissed the "Baphomet" issue as patently false, just one
more trumped-up
charge against the Templars. However, after studying both the
hypothetical and
more plausible connections between the Templars, Sufism, and
Freemasonry, I
have come to the tentative conclusion that the "Baphomet"
matter may have
contained a sizable element of truth -- one which the
inquisitors certainly
distorted, but true nonetheless.
Most of us who have heard of Baphomet first encountered the
name in either a
history book or the works of Anton Szandor LaVey, whose
goat's-head-in-the-
inverted-pentagram illustration is supposed to be Baphomet,
or else in the works
of Aleister Crowley, who equated Baphomet with the Greek god
Pan (Crowley,
1974). Crowley, who was born on the eve of the anniversary of
the Templar
arrests, even adopted the name "Baphomet" as his own motto
when he joined
Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of the Oriental Temple, or
O.T.O.). Other occult
writers who have discussed Baphomet include nineteenth
century authors Eliphaz
Levi and Albert Pike, and Baphomet is the model for "The
Devil" in the
Waite-Rider and Case-B.O.T.A. tarot decks. Many historians
have claimed that
the name "Baphomet" was Old French for Muhammad, whose name
is sometimes
spelled Mahomet, although Crowley (1989) presented an
interesting, but probably
coincidental, claim that the name came from a Greek phrase
for "baptism of
wisdom". The problem with Crowley's case is it overlooks two
basic facts about
the Templars: 1) as Roman Catholics, Greek names were not
that important to
them (and to Catholics at the time, the Greek Orthodox
Christians were in some
ways just as much "infidels" as the Muslims), and 2) the
Templars who lived in
the Holy Land, along with the masons they employed, had to
deal with the local
population on a regular basis, often became fluent in Arabic,
and for a European in
the Holy Land --Templars included -- to "go native" was not
particularly
unusual. But it was in the pop-history book Holy Blood, Holy
Grail that I first
came across the idea that "Baphomet" was derived from an
Arabic term,
abufihamet, meaning "Father of Understanding", rather than
from an Old French
name for the founder of Islam. Since that book, although a
"good read", is not one
scholars take seriously due to its highly speculative theses,
I decided to check
their source for this, Idries Shah's The Sufis, which
contains additional relevant
information discussed below.
For now I tend to favor the Arabic origins over the Old
French for the following
reasons: first, as an iconoclastic religion, Islam strictly
forbids images, either
painted or sculpted, of either God or Muhammad, so the idea
of even unorthodox
Muslims worshipping an idol is simply ludicrous. Second, of
those authors I have
read who claim that "any expert on Old French" will say that
Baphomet was
another name for Muhammad never actually cite any such Old
French experts to
document this assertion. One such writer was Peter Partner,
who even found a
French troubadour ballad from the late thirteenth century and
published an English
translation, showing parenthetically that "Bafometz" had
appeared in the original
French (he had rendered it as "Mohammed" as if this had
somehow proved his
point). What Partner had inadvertently done was prove that a)
Baphomet was a
known entity before the demise of the Templars, and most
likely a person with
spiritual power, capable of working miracles (although Islam
never credits
Muhammad with any "miracle" other than receiving the Qur'an),
and b) that
Baphomet was known among non-Templars (although Partner
believed the
ballad's author was an ex-Templar, that troubadour's audience
certainly had
non-Templars among them), and if Shah is correct in his
assertions about Sufic
influences on the troubadours, then we have in the ballad
Partner quoted possible
proof of a link between Sufism and Baphomet. (As for the
Templars and the Sufis,
not only were there many documented contacts between Templars
and Sufis [as
well as other unorthodox Muslims such as the Ismailis] during
their time in the
Middle East, but there were also opportunities for contacts
in Europe. France,
after all, borders Spain, and during the Crusades Sufism
flourished in
Muslim-ruled Spain and influenced the early Qabalistic Jews
and other mystics on
both sides of the border; Robert Graves, in his introduction
to Shah's book, even
claimed that Templars fought alongside Sufi warriors in
Spain. And many Masonic
trappings, such as the checkered floor and the tolerance of
all monotheistic
religions, are at least Islamic in origin if not specifically
Sufic.) But in my opinion
the strongest support for Baphomet as abufihamet is the
number of Arabic
sobriquets which begin with abu which belonged to historical
individuals rather
than esoteric principles.
One such individual was the tenth century Sufi martyr Husayn
ibn Mansur al-
Hallaj, who died in 922CE. A pantheist, an alleged miracle
worker, and a most
definitely unorthodox Muslim, Hallaj was imprisoned and tried
for blasphemy for
his public descriptions of his mystical union with God.
Finally convicted after a
nine year inquiry, Hallaj was maimed, crucified, beheaded,
and his torso was
cremated. Some of the stories surrounding his death include
an account of the
Caliph's Queen Mother having Hallaj's head preserved as a
relic (Singh, 1970).
Various Sufi sects have rituals commemorating Hallaj's death,
and Shah claimed
that Hallaj was the model for the "Hiram Abiff" character in
the Master Mason
initiation ritual. Although Shah cited other reasons
connecting Hallaj to Hiram
Abiff and the sect of Sufis known as "the Builders" (who
built the Al Aqsa
Mosque and the Dome of the Rock on the site of Solomon's
Temple in Jerusalem,
which was the Holy Land headquarters for the Templars and the
mythical scene of
Masonic initiations), Hallaj bore some interesting parallels
to the Old
Testament's descriptions of Hiram the artificer: first, both
men were sons of
widows; second, both men had "sons of David" play key roles
in their lives (Hiram
worked for Solomon, and one of Hallaj's prosecutors was named
Ibn Daud
[Massignon, 1994], which is Arabic for "Son of David"), and
third, the Old
Testament Hebrew for "Abiff" is abyu (Kohlenberger, 1987).
Having already
encountered writers who hypothesized a connection between the
Templars and
Freemasonry (which, although plausible, is nowhere near as
romantic or fantastic
as some, such as John J. Robinson in Born in Blood, have
claimed), I had already
found the first two most interesting, and further
investigation of Hallaj, who,
according to the medieval Islamic poet and historian Farid
al-Din Attar, turns out
to have been known by several titles beginning with abu-,
brought the third
coincidence to my attention. And since, as noted above, some
of the Templars may
indeed have been participants in documented Sufi practices,
could the charge that
the Templars "worshipped a head called Baphomet" not have had
some factual
basis, namely the commemoration of a decapitated Sufi martyr
whose head
became a relic and who had been given the sobriquet
abufihamet? The only
problem here is that despite all the other abu- titles
belonging to Hallaj, there is
no known documentation linking him to abufihamet. Perhaps
this documentation
does exist, but has not yet come to my attention, and should
someone who knows
of it ever read this essay, I would be most appreciative to
hear of it. Until then, the
above thesis, although plausible in my opinion, and hopefully
interesting to the
reader, remains purely speculative. But if it does turn up,
then at last we will have
proof positive that the Templars possessed a body of
knowledge that would later
become known to the Freemasons, regardless of how Freemasonry
came to be.
Frater Baraka invites opinions and support to his thesis.
Those wishing to contact
the author may write to him at P.O. Box 101722, Pittsburgh
PA, 15237 or
zentao93@juno.com
Bibliography
Attar, Farid al-Din (A.J. Arberry, trans.). Muslim Saints and
Mystics. New York:
Arkana, 1990.
Baigent, Michael, Leigh, Richard, and Lincoln, Henry. Holy
Blood, Holy Grail.
New York: Dell, 1982.
Case, Paul Foster. The Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages
(revised edition).
Los Angeles: Builders of the Adytum, 1990.
Crowley, Aleister. The Book of Thoth. York Beach: Samuel
Weiser, 1974.
__________. The Confessions of Aleister Crowley. New York:
Arkana, 1989.
Daraul, Arkon. A History of Secret Societies. New York:
Citadel Press, 1961.
Howarth, Stephen. The Knights Templar. New York: Dorset,
1991.
Khan, Pir Vilayat Inayat. Toward the One. New York: Harper
Colophon, 1974.
Kohlenberger, John R. III, ed. The New International Version
Hebrew-English
Interlinear Old Testament. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1987.
LaVey, Anton Szandor. The Satanic Bible. New York: Avon
Books, 1969.
Levi, Eliphaz (A.E. Waite, trans.). Transcendental Magic.
York Beach: Samuel
Weiser, 1970.
Massignon, Louis (H. Mason, ed. & trans.). Hallaj: Mystic and
Martyr.
Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1994.
Partner, Peter. The Murdered Magicians: The Templars and
their Myth. New
York: Barnes & Noble Books, 1993.
Pike, Albert. Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted
Scottish Rite of
Freemasonry. Charleston: Supreme Council of the Thirty Third
Degree for the
Southern United States, 1871.
Robinson, John J. Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of
Freemasonry. New York:
Evans, 1989.
__________. Dungeon, Fire, and Sword: The Knights Templar in
the Crusades .
New York: Evans, 1991.
Shah, Idries. The Sufis. New York: Doubleday Anchor, 1964.
Singh, Kapur. Mansur Al-Hallaj. Patiala: Guru Gobind Singh,
Department of
Religious Studies, Punjabi University, 1970.
Waite, Arthur Edward. Pictorial Key to the Tarot. New York:
Causeway, no date.
Subject:
Ancient Sufism
Date:
Mon, 24 May 1999 10:35:21 -0500 (CDT)
From:
kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
jswick@cris.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, timquick@cwnet.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com,
mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com,
rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, 74277.3365@compuserve.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org,
proclus@mac.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com
Hail Mutants!
I was doing some study on Karaite Judaism and became very interested
in the conflict between the Karaim and the Rabbanim on the Law of
Tefillin.
The Karaim point out that the word "totafot" which is translated as
"frontlet
in Exodus 13:16 is the exact equivalent of the word "zikron" which is
translated
as "remembrance" back in Exodus 13:9. The Karaites don't wear
Tefillin because
they believe that the Law of Teliffin is refering to a meditation
practice in
which the the Torah is internalized or "written in the heart".
I suddenly flashed on the word "Zikron" when I realized it is cognate
with the
Arabic "Zikr" which also means "remembrance" and is refering to a
specific
technique of Sufi practice. "Zikr" is a kind of "Mantra Yoga" in
which the
Divine Names is chanted in time with specific body motions and
breathing.
"Zikr" in a group, under the direction of a Shaykh, produces profound
changes in
consciousness, called "intoxication", that can only be described as
"psychedelic"
(mind-manifesting).
So I started looking for other ZKR words in the Torah and straight
away came to
the heart of the Mosaic Revelation, Exodus 3:15 which reads:
"And Elohim said to Mosheh, 'Thus shall you say to the sons of
Yisrael,
Yahue, Elohim of your fathers, Elohim of Abraham, Elohim of Yitzak,
and
Elohim of Yakob, has sent me to you; this is my Name to this age, and
and this my remembrance (zekr) generation to generation'".
(my own translation)
What is of interest to me is the fact that the zikr "Yah Hu" has been
used
in Sufism from the begining, even though it is has been understood to
mean
"Oh He!".
I guess that it might be useful to see if the Tetragramaton could
actually
read "He Is".
Anyway, it looks to me like the tradition that became Kabbalah in
Judaism and
Sufism in Islam and Bhakti Yoga in Hinduism is very, VERY old indeed.
Subject:
Jewish Sufism
Date:
Mon, 24 May 1999 16:19:54 -0500 (CDT)
From:
kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com,
timquick@cwnet.com, ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com,
jswick@cris.com, kathleen@enol.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, proclus@mac.com,
trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, rpcman@hotmail.com,
kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org
IV. Seclusion as a meditative practice in Sufism and Sabbateanism
========================================================
Khalwa (Arbic) or Hitbodedut (Hebrew) -- lit. seclusion; may signify
either the outer seclusion -- spiritual retreat to a secluded place,
most often a cave or a cell, or, by extension, the inner seclusion --
the meditational technique practiced during such a retreat, or the
psychological state resulting from it, i.e., oblivion to the world of
senses. [For a comparative study of seclusion, see: P.B. Fenton,
"Solitary Meditation in Jewish and Islamic Mysticism in the Light of
a
Recent Archeological Discovery", Medieval Encounters 1(2), pp.
271-296.]
Prototypes of seclusion include, in the Jewish tradition, Moses' and
Elijah's seclusion in the desert, and in the Moslem -- Muhammad's
sojourn in the cave of Hira. In ancient Judaism meditative seclusion
has
been practiced at least since the Essenians and Therapeuts.
Researchers
surmise that the ritualistic notion of Khalwa came into Sufi usage
from
the Christian monastic tradition: the Syriac cognate Hulla designates
a
monk's cell.
Seclusion was a widespread practice among Kabbalists, in particular
Safed Kabbalists in the 16th century. Safed was also a center of
Rifa`i
Sufi activity, and archeological recent discoveries have unearthed a
cavity in a mountain opposite the city, which, according to an
inscription found inside it, had been used as a Sufi cell -- Zawiyya
--
at least from the time of the Mamelukes. This discovery provides
evidence of the surmise that Safed was a major spiritual center not
only
for Jewish mystics but for Moslem ones as well. The archeological
findings give us a remarkable example of a parallel devotional ritual
shared by the two great mystical traditions at the same time in the
Land
of Israel.
AMIRA"H used both means of seclusion -- the inner and the outer one.
AMIRA"H started this practice early on, in his youth in Smyrna,
where,
R. Avrahm Cuenque tells us, he used to "retreat to the mountains and
caves and neither his brothers nor his father's house knew whither he
went." This withdrawal to the caves and mountains is strongly
reminiscent of the Sufi practice, and strengthens our
characterization
of AMIRA"H as a Sufi mystic.
Sabbatai Sevi used to retreat to seclusion while he was in Jerusalem
too, before his fisrt public revelation; his places of retreat were a
seclusion room in his home, and sometimes the caves and deserts in
the
Judea mountains. This seclusion practice may reflect both Sufi Khalwa
practice and a pratice of desert monasticism which developed in the
Eastern Church. Also, it should be mentioned in this context that in
multi-religious Smyrna and Jerusalem both, AMIRA"H had the chance to
contact Eastern Orthodox monks as well as Sufi mystics.
In Sufism, we have detailed descriptions of the inner sort of
seclusion.
For instance, the imminent Sufi theologian al-Ghazali, in his "'Ihya'
`Ulum ad-Din" (=The Revival of the Science of Religion), describes
the
meditational practice needed for illumination:
"The path to illumination consisits initially of detaching one's self
from wordly fetters and emptying the heart of such things (...) to
such
an extent that the worshipper's mind becomes indifferent to the
existence and non-existence of things. Then he will isolate himself
in a
Zawiyya in order to meditate (...) He will endeavour to fix his
thought
on nought else but the word Allah. Then, after having settled in his
retreat, he will continuously repeat the word Allah, concentrating to
such a degree that he ceases to pronounce the word which will
henseforth
flow upon his tongue (...) Then the word's form, its letters and its
writing will be absorbed into his mind, only the meaning remaining
(...)
If his will and intention be pure and he continue to presrve, without
allowing himself to be disturbed by physical desires and material
thoughts, the Divine light will eventually illuminate his heart."
We have no evidence pertaining to Sabbatai Sevi's techniques of inner
seclusion; however, al-Ghazali's description is a possible guide to
his
practices. It seems a probable surmise that AMIRA"H subsituted God's
ineffable name for al-Ghazali's Allah. According to one eye-witness,
R.
Isreal Hazan, while in this mystical state of seclusion, AMIRA"H
tried
to unify all the worlds -- the upper as well as the lower echelons of
creation -- in one pantheistic all-embracing unity.
al-`abd al-mamnun,
Ibrahim Al-Qa`im
Subject:
Re: Ancient Sufism
Date:
Mon, 24 May 1999 22:18:33 -0700
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
Ken Shaw , shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, timquick@cwnet.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com,
mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net,
trent@goodnet.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, rpcman@hotmail.com,
enoch144@eagle-net.org, proclus@mac.com,
ArtdeHoyos@aol.com
References:
1
Excellent discussion, Ken! This is the kind of thing I like about
the RM
list. Your discussion reminds me of Kaplan's discussion of certain
Kabbalistic meditative practices, indicated by the word hitbodedut.
Are you familiar with this?
JSW
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Shaw
To:
?.3365@compuserve.com>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 8:35 AM
Subject: Ancient Sufism
>
> Hail Mutants!
>
>
> I was doing some study on Karaite Judaism and became very
interested
> in the conflict between the Karaim and the Rabbanim on the Law of
Tefillin.
>
> The Karaim point out that the word "totafot" which is translated as
"frontlet
> in Exodus 13:16 is the exact equivalent of the word "zikron" which
is
translated
> as "remembrance" back in Exodus 13:9. The Karaites don't wear
Tefillin
because
> they believe that the Law of Teliffin is refering to a meditation
practice
in
> which the the Torah is internalized or "written in the heart".
>
> I suddenly flashed on the word "Zikron" when I realized it is
cognate with
the
> Arabic "Zikr" which also means "remembrance" and is refering to a
specific
> technique of Sufi practice. "Zikr" is a kind of "Mantra Yoga" in
which
the
> Divine Names is chanted in time with specific body motions and
breathing.
>
> "Zikr" in a group, under the direction of a Shaykh, produces
profound
changes in
> consciousness, called "intoxication", that can only be described as
"psychedelic"
> (mind-manifesting).
>
> So I started looking for other ZKR words in the Torah and straight
away
came to
> the heart of the Mosaic Revelation, Exodus 3:15 which reads:
>
> "And Elohim said to Mosheh, 'Thus shall you say to the sons of
Yisrael,
> Yahue, Elohim of your fathers, Elohim of Abraham, Elohim of Yitzak,
and
> Elohim of Yakob, has sent me to you; this is my Name to this age,
and
> and this my remembrance (zekr) generation to generation'".
> (my own translation)
>
> What is of interest to me is the fact that the zikr "Yah Hu" has
been used
> in Sufism from the begining, even though it is has been understood
to mean
> "Oh He!".
>
> I guess that it might be useful to see if the Tetragramaton could
actually
> read "He Is".
>
> Anyway, it looks to me like the tradition that became Kabbalah in
Judaism
and
> Sufism in Islam and Bhakti Yoga in Hinduism is very, VERY old
indeed.
>
Subject:
Re: Ancient Sufism
Date:
Tue, 25 May 1999 09:32:45 -0500 (CDT)
From:
kshaw@dalsemi.com (Ken Shaw)
To:
jswick@cris.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, timquick@cwnet.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, kathleen@enol.com,
mpierce@switchsoft.com, onandagus@webtv.net, trent@goodnet.com,
rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, 74277.3365@compuserve.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, enoch144@eagle-net.org,
proclus@mac.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com
CC:
Student007@msn.com
Joe,
The prayer method taught by George Pace at BYU was pretty much
hitbodedut.
Gearge Pace's stages of prayer:
1. Ordinary prayer. Awkwardness, self-consiousness negotiation with
vaguely imaginined authority figure.
2. Confessional prayer. Telling the truth to a vaguely imagined
authority
figure. The emotions start to engage.
3. Repentant prayer. The first intimations of a Real Presence from
a Higher
Reality. The actual "taste" of the Higher strikes awe into the
heart and
reveals in a flash of insight the sickness and sins of the soul.
The soul
is pierced with anquish and desires to turn away from evil.
4. Adoring prayer. The Presence of the Higher blots out the sense
of sin
like the rising Sun. Profound love for the Presence inspires
spontanious
adoration of the Presence.
5. Longing prayer. The love for the Presence flames up into an
almost sexual
desire to unite with the Presence, to merge with the Presence.
6. Wordless Abandon. All words fall way, all sense of "self"
disappears, the
senses have withdrawn from the outer world, consciousness has
united into
single point and flies into the Presence.
7. Absorption. Only the Presence is Present. "He" stands in the
world in
your body. "He" looks out through your eyes and hears with your
ears.
8. Mystery. It becomes plain that "you" never existed at all, "He"
is All.
OK...so I filled it out a little...but that's the idea.
Ken Shaw
----- Begin Included Message -----
Excellent discussion, Ken! This is the kind of thing I like about
the RM
list. Your discussion reminds me of Kaplan's discussion of certain
Kabbalistic meditative practices, indicated by the word hitbodedut.
Are you familiar with this?
JSW
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hail Mutants!
I was doing some study on Karaite Judaism and became very interested
in the conflict between the Karaim and the Rabbanim on the Law of
Tefillin.
The Karaim point out that the word "totafot" which is translated as
"frontlet
in Exodus 13:16 is the exact equivalent of the word "zikron" which is
translated
as "remembrance" back in Exodus 13:9. The Karaites don't wear
Tefillin because
they believe that the Law of Teliffin is refering to a meditation
practice in
which the the Torah is internalized or "written in the heart".
I suddenly flashed on the word "Zikron" when I realized it is cognate
with the
Arabic "Zikr" which also means "remembrance" and is refering to a
specific
technique of Sufi practice. "Zikr" is a kind of "Mantra Yoga" in
which the
Divine Names is chanted in time with specific body motions and
breathing.
"Zikr" in a group, under the direction of a Shaykh, produces profound
changes in
consciousness, called "intoxication", that can only be described as
"psychedelic"
(mind-manifesting).
So I started looking for other ZKR words in the Torah and straight
away came to
the heart of the Mosaic Revelation, Exodus 3:15 which reads:
"And Elohim said to Mosheh, 'Thus shall you say to the sons of
Yisrael,
Yahue, Elohim of your fathers, Elohim of Abraham, Elohim of Yitzak,
and
Elohim of Yakob, has sent me to you; this is my Name to this age, and
and this my remembrance (zekr) generation to generation'".
(my own translation)
What is of interest to me is the fact that the zikr "Yah Hu" has been
used
in Sufism from the begining, even though it is has been understood to
mean
"Oh He!".
I guess that it might be useful to see if the Tetragramaton could
actually
read "He Is".
Anyway, it looks to me like the tradition that became Kabbalah in
Judaism and
Sufism in Islam and Bhakti Yoga in Hinduism is very, VERY old indeed.
----- End Included Message -----
Subject:
Re: The Radical Mormon
Date:
Wed, 26 May 1999 20:35:15 -0700
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
proclus ,
Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge ,
Beth any ,
rpc man , Dave ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Ken Shaw , Beth ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
Enoch Shemna
References:
1
Of course, I like the page. However, Jeff Lindsey's Mormonism and
Masonry
page is the biggest whitewash I've ever seen.
JSW
----- Original Message -----
From: proclus
To: Andy Mcguire Kathleen McGuire
R. Trent Reynolds Joe Steve
Swick
III ArtdeHoyos Randall
Shortridge
Beth any proclus
rpc man Dave
Robert R. Black ?.3365@compuserve.com> Ken Shaw
Beth Kerry Shirts
Michael
J. Pierce Enoch Shemna
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: The Radical Mormon
> Here is that link again.
>
>
>
> I haven't received any responses yet, but I took it on to beta
anyway.
> I also sent a message to Absalom, and requested a Yahoo listing.
It is
> online and public now. I changed the poll to the Mormon qu estion.
Go
> take the poll and rack up a few comments. Have fun! Play with it.
> Later, I will return to give you further instructions ;-}.
>
> Regards,
> proclus
>
>
> --
> Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w---
!O M++
> V--
> PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h---
> r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
Subject:
RE: The Radical Mormon
Date:
Wed, 26 May 1999 23:35:20 -0600
From:
Kerry Shirts
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge ,
Beth any , rpc man ,
Dave ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Ken Shaw , Beth ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
Enoch Shemna ,
'proclus'
HEY! The article on Gematria and the Book of Mormon was absolutely
PRECIOUS! Man can we get more stuff like that researched? I know John
Gee
took a dim view of Joe Sampson's book "Written By the Finger of GOd,"
and I
respect his Egyptological prowess, but I felt he was too harsh with
Sampson. Has any of us ever gotten into this book and should we
discuss it
more? I for one would LOVE to learn more Gematria and how it applies.
THANKS for the great website Proclus, you stud (a compliment, a
compliment
I hasten to add - I called one guy that and darn near had armageddon
on my
hands - GRIN!).
Kerry A. Shirts
----------
From: proclus[SMTP:proclus@mac.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:56 PM
To: Andy Mcguire; Kathleen McGuire; R. Trent Reynolds; Joe Steve
Swick
III; ArtdeHoyos; Randall Shortridge; Beth any; proclus; rpc man;
Dave;
Robert R. Black; Ken Shaw; Beth; Kerry Shirts; Michael J. Pierce;
Enoch
Shemna
Subject: RE: The Radical Mormon
Here is that link again.
I haven't received any responses yet, but I took it on to beta
anyway.
I also sent a message to Absalom, and requested a Yahoo listing. It
is
online and public now. I changed the poll to the Mormon question.
Go
take the poll and rack up a few comments. Have fun! Play with it.
Later, I will return to give you further instructions ;-}.
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O
M++
V--
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h---
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Subject:
Re: LDS Are Very Intolerant...
Date:
Wed, 26 May 1999 22:59:46 -0700
From:
Joe Steve Swick III
To:
KATHY CHRISTENSEN ,
Kerry Shirts ,
Michael Love , Ken Shaw
___aint mormon anti___
You would think that given their experiences with the unreasoning
force of
government in the 1890's,
Mormons would come to prize personal liberties all the more.
Unfortunately,
most LDS... believe in
using government force to coerce others into keeping their version
of
morality. (Don't know what genus wrote it)
-----
Errr... not that I feel some big need to take credit, but I'm the one
who
said this. I'm not quite sure what genus I am. Several ARM
posters
probably have some theories about this.
Cheers,
Joe Swick
Heretic
Subject:
Re: The Radical Mormon
Date:
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:11:45 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man ,
Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna
References:
1 , 2
Ahh, I was wondering about that so-called mormon mason FAQ. It came
up
in the discussions here once or twice, so I thought that I would
include
it. Perhaps there are other links that would be more appropriate.(?)
Regards,
proclus
Joe Steve Swick III wrote:
>
> Of course, I like the page. However, Jeff Lindsey's Mormonism and
Masonry
> page is the biggest whitewash I've ever seen.
>
> JSW
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: proclus
> To: Andy Mcguire Kathleen McGuire
> R. Trent Reynolds Joe
Steve Swick
> III ArtdeHoyos Randall
Shortridge
> Beth any proclus
> rpc man Dave
> Robert R. Black ?.3365@compuserve.com> Ken Shaw
> Beth Kerry Shirts
Michael
> J. Pierce Enoch Shemna
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:56 PM
> Subject: RE: The Radical Mormon
>
> > Here is that link again.
> >
> >
> >
> > I haven't received any responses yet, but I took it on to beta
anyway.
> > I also sent a message to Absalom, and requested a Yahoo listing.
It is
> > online and public now. I changed the poll to the Mormon
question. Go
> > take the poll and rack up a few comments. Have fun! Play with
it.
> > Later, I will return to give you further instructions ;-}.
> >
> > Regards,
> > proclus
> >
> >
> > --
> > Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version: 3.1
> > GMU/S d+@ s:+ a C++++ UULI++$ P L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w---
!O M++
> > V--
> > PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-@ b !DI D- G e++>++++ h---
> > r+++ y++++
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> >
--
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Subject:
Re: The Radical Mormon
Date:
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:24:50 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
rpc man ,
Ken Shaw ,
Enoch Shemna
References:
1
Kerry Shirts wrote:
>
> HEY! The article on Gematria and the Book of Mormon was absolutely
> PRECIOUS!
Yea, I know what you mean. I read that and Rabbi Josef's material at
the same time. I think Ken recommended them. They knocked my socks
off
completely. I think that the BOM gematria and kabbalah stuff is
among
the most important radical mormon stuff happening right now.
> THANKS for the great website Proclus, you stud (a compliment, a
compliment
> I hasten to add - I called one guy that and darn near had
armageddon on my
> hands - GRIN!).
Thanks man. Don't forget that it is your website too. Should we and
a
FAIR block to the sidebar. Perhaps you could keep us updated with
recent material.
Too many mormon news sites peter out. It is up to us to keep this
one
turgid ;-}.
Regards,
proclus
> Kerry A. Shirts
>
> ----------
> From: proclus[SMTP:proclus@mac.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:56 PM
> To: Andy Mcguire; Kathleen McGuire; R. Trent Reynolds; Joe
Steve Swick
> III; ArtdeHoyos; Randall Shortridge; Beth any; proclus; rpc man;
Dave;
> Robert R. Black; Ken Shaw; Beth; Kerry Shirts; Michael J. Pierce;
Enoch
> Shemna
> Subject: RE: The Radical Mormon
>
> Here is that link again.
>
>
>
> I haven't received any responses yet, but I took it on to beta
anyway.
> I also sent a message to Absalom, and requested a Yahoo listing.
It is
> online and public now. I changed the poll to the Mormon question.
Go
> take the poll and rack up a few comments. Have fun! Play with it.
> Later, I will return to give you further instructions ;-}.
>
> Regards,
> proclus
>
> --
> Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
mahonri-L
Date:
Thu, 27 May 1999 09:30:32 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth ,
Beth any , Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"Michael J. Pierce" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net"