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Subject:
[Fwd: proclus' server]
Date:
Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:23:18 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
proclus
Subject:
proclus' server
Date:
Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:05:11 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Dave , Enoch Shemna ,
Gaia , Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus
,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black"
,
I see that someone (one of you, I hope ;-) was trying to access
gods.html. I've had to make my server a little more secure. You will
need to get access by typing user: geek, password: indulgence. Here's
the link again.
http://medici.penguinpowered.com/gods.html
Also, don't forget that you need to select "reply all", if you want your
comments to go out to the whole list. Otherwise, your replies just go
to the originator of the message.
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
[Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Sat, 04 Mar 2000 13:58:15 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Dave , Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds"
,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" , rpc man ,
Subject:
[Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:23:02 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
proclus
Subject:
Re: recent radical stuff
Date:
Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:02:42 -0800 (PST)
From:
Gaia D
To:
proclus
RE: TARGETING ABUSIVE POLYGAMISTS
PROCLUS:
What a travesty, fighting a human right in the
name of human rights. ... I think that the fathers are
weeping. We have sadly lost the promises.
GAIA_D:
I understand your concern, but the truth is that
spouse and child abuse are *major* problems among
male-dominated, fundamentalist households.
There are MANY men practicing polygyny who are FAR
from being the kind of patriarchs which JS had in mind
when he instituted polygamy.
Unless a man makes a very concerted effort to remain
humble, abuse absolutely *thrives* in the
closed-in-on-itself, incestuous atmosphere of
fundamentalism, where each man is encouraged to think
of himself as God's mouthpiece. There are *many*
stories of young girls under 14, being forced to
accept old men (to whom they may be related in the
closed social polygamous groups) as husbands.
Once they are married at such young ages, they have
little or no experience as independent, autonomous
beings and it is nearly imppossible for them to get
out of bad situations.
The article stressed the fact that the authorities do
not intend to target polygamists per se, only those
who may be guilty of abuse. In light of this, it may
be a very great blessing to many women and children.
Gaia_D
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
Subject:
[Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Sat, 04 Mar 2000 13:58:41 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Dave , Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds"
,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" , rpc man ,
Subject:
[Fwd: [Fwd: recent radical stuff]]
Date:
Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:37:48 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
proclus
Subject:
Re: [Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:36:18 -0800 (PST)
From:
Gaia D
To:
proclus
PROCLUS:
We don't say that marriage or fatherhood is evil, just
because there are evil fathers.
GAIA:
Very true.
Such men maybe should have been investigated for child
or spousalabuse, not for polygamy. It is
unconstitutional and offensive to human rights
to pursue polygamy charges at all.
GAIA:
That's what i understood the article to be saying,
actually. ;->
PROCLUS:
I have already "committed" polygamy in my heart
;=}... get me to the sealing room, the mirrored
bridal chamber!
GAIA:
Heheheh.....know wha'cha mean!
Hey, ENORMOUS congrats on your dissertation! What is
it on?
And yes, i'd be happy to have this exchange on the
list, if you think it's appropriate.
Great to "talk" with you -
Gaia
--
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
Subject:
[Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Sat, 04 Mar 2000 13:59:00 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Dave , Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus , "R. Trent Reynolds"
,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" , rpc man ,
Subject:
Re: [Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Thu, 02 Mar 2000 20:25:59 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Gaia D , proclus
References:
1
> PROCLUS:
> What a travesty, fighting a human right in the
> name of human rights. ... I think that the fathers are
> weeping. We have sadly lost the promises.
>
> GAIA_D:
> I understand your concern, but the truth is that
> spouse and child abuse are *major* problems among
> male-dominated, fundamentalist households.
> There are MANY men practicing polygyny who are FAR
> from being the kind of patriarchs which JS had in mind
> when he instituted polygamy.
In my limited experience, I would say that you are right here.
Nonetheless, polygamy is a human and religious right. There is no
worthiness tests for it in the vast majority of polygamous societies.
We don't say that marriage or fatherhood is evil, just because there are
evil fathers.
> There are *many*
> stories of young girls under 14, being forced to
> accept old men (to whom they may be related in the
> closed social polygamous groups) as husbands.
> Once they are married at such young ages, they have
> little or no experience as independent, autonomous
> beings and it is nearly imppossible for them to get
> out of bad situations.
Gaia, thanks so much for pointing this out. These days I'm a cloistered
cranky intellectual. I had almost forgotten about some young ladies
that I once knew who faced just this kind of situation and much worse.
It was very sad and tragic indeed.
Such men maybe should have been investigated for child or spousal abuse,
not for polygamy. It is unconstitutional and offensive to human rights
to pursue polygamy charges at all.
> The article stressed the fact that the authorities do
> not intend to target polygamists per se, only those
> who may be guilty of abuse. In light of this, it may
> be a very great blessing to many women and children.
I hope that you are right in this. I'm sorry that I don't have the time
to double check, with my dissertation preparations and all. It is my
recollection that the articles were very prejudicial towards polygamy,
per se. Such predjudice would receive my strongest objection. I am
just three generations from beautiful, righteous polygamy. I seek the
blessings of the fathers, and I will not betray my heretage. I have
already "committed" polygamy in my heart ;=}... get me to the sealing
room, the mirrored bridal chamber!
Warmest Regards,
proclus
BTW, Perhaps you intended this to be forwarded to the whole list; that
is OK with me. If so, just forward it along or let me know, and I
will. Otherwise, that's OK too ;-}.
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
Re: [Fwd: recent radical stuff]
Date:
Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:08:39 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Dave , Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" , rpc man ,
References:
1
proclus wrote:
> Such men maybe should have been investigated for child
> or spousalabuse, not for polygamy. It is
> unconstitutional and offensive to human rights
> to pursue polygamy charges at all.
>
> GAIA:
> That's what i understood the article to be saying,
> actually. ;->
Ah good. What a relief!
> PROCLUS:
> I have already "committed" polygamy in my heart
> ;=}... get me to the sealing room, the mirrored
> bridal chamber!
>
> GAIA:
> Heheheh.....know wha'cha mean!
(proclus grinz)
> Hey, ENORMOUS congrats on your dissertation! What is
> it on?
I'm studying skeletal and heart muscle regulation. We have described
the structural basis of the Ca2+ switch, at least in part. That is what
turns on the muscle. I am pretty excited, becuause this will really
turn the wheels, stir the pot as it were, especially in drug
development. Ahh, it's "top secret" stuff for now, but my prospects
appear to be very good. That is why I am sooo swamped right now.
Thanks for asking.
> And yes, i'd be happy to have this exchange on the
> list, if you think it's appropriate.
> Great to "talk" with you -
> Gaia
Then, Here it is; yes and very nice indeed!
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
Prop. 22
Date:
Sat, 04 Mar 2000 20:34:31 PST
From:
"rpc man"
To:
proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, comdb@yahoo.com, enoch144@eaglehost.com,
JSWICK@MINDSPRING.COM, kathleen@enol.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com,
shirtail@cyberhighway.net, onandagus@webtv.net,
tpfamily@dotplanet.net,
rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, black@accex.net, rpcman@hotmail.com,
I haven't posted in years but thought I'd send this along in light of the
fact that the election is about 48 hours away.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Subject:
Quinn responds to the Tanners
Date:
Mon, 06 Mar 2000 14:23:27 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos ,
Beth any ,
Dave ,
Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
proclus ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge ,
"Robert R. Black" ,
rpc man ,
Gaia D
http://www.california.com/~rpcman/MO2.HTM
THAT was a fabulous read. Is this for real?
Regards,
proclus
Subject:
[Fwd: Radical Mormon channel]
Date:
Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:11:52 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
proclus@medici.penguinpowered.com
Subject:
Radical Mormon channel
Date:
Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:58:56 -0500
From:
proclus
To:
proclus@medici.penguinpowered.com
(wide field broadcast)
OK, now you can add The Radical Mormon channel to your MyNetscape page!
Here's the link.
http://my.netscape.com/addchannel.tmpl?service=net.2059
Enjoy!
If you are into this wonderful syndication stuff, we should talk. Here
is the address of the XML file, and a nice example of the html that can
be generated from it.
radical.rss
http://medici.penguinpowered.com/rss_pngs/rad.html
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
Incarnations of Joseph Smith
Date:
Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:36:59 -0800
From:
"Enoch Theos"
To:
"proclus" ,
"Andy Mcguire" ,
"ArtdeHoyos" , "Beth any" ,
"Dave" , "Enoch Shemna" ,
"Joe Steve Swick III" ,
"Kathleen McGuire" ,
"Ken Shaw" ,
"Kerry Shirts" , ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
"Randall Shortridge" ,
"Robert R. Black" , "rpc man" ,
Hello mutants,
I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any of the other incarnations
of Joseph Smith Jr., I think it may have been this list where I read that
Joseph Smith was Merlin and helped gather the round table, like he gathered
the quorum of the 50.
I was also told in revelation once that Joseph Smith Jr. was also Joseph,
the earthly father of Jesheuwa (Jesus Christ)
I was told by a medium that St. Germain works with me and that he calls me
Enoch, Joseph Smith appeared to me years ago and told me my name was Enoch.
As I was doing some research on the past incarnations of St. Germain I saw
that he was Merlin and Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus.
Enoch Theos
Subject:
Re: Incarnations of Joseph Smith
Date:
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:29:52 -0500
From:
Randall Shortridge
Organization:
State University of New York
To:
enoch144@eaglehost.com
CC:
proclus ,
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Dave ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw
,
Kerry Shirts , onandagus@webtv.net,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
"Robert R. Black" , rpc man
,
Gaia D
References:
1
There is a lot of St. Germain stuff that comes out of the "I AM"
movement that originated on MT. Shasta (1930's). There were a number of
groups that eventually came out from them, one being the Church
Universal Triumphant (CUT) which was founded by Mark L. Prophet and
Elizabeth Clare Prophet in the late 1950's. CUT now has its
headquarters in Montana and I understand that it is struggling right
now. Mark Prophet died a long time ago and Elizabeth Prophet has a
nervous disorder that affects her memory. One can search the web and
get quite a bit of info on CUT and other groups that arose out of the "I
AM" movement.
Anyway, in the CUT books (eg. the Lost Teachings of Jesus), they say
that St. Germain was also incarnated as:
Samuel the Prophet (of the OT)
Joseph, the husband of Mary and father of Jesus
Christopher Columbus
Francis Bacon (who is thought by some to be the real Shakesphere)
St. Germain (achieved ascension)
but, may have come back later as the son of Prince Rakoczy II
They also maintain that St. Germain works with many individuals now as
an ascended master. No mention of JS or that St. Germain is embodied at
the present time in any of the "I AM" movement writings.
Randall
Enoch Theos wrote:
>
> Hello mutants,
>
> I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any of the other incarnations
> of Joseph Smith Jr., I think it may have been this list where I read that
> Joseph Smith was Merlin and helped gather the round table, like he gathered
> the quorum of the 50.
>
> I was also told in revelation once that Joseph Smith Jr. was also Joseph,
> the earthly father of Jesheuwa (Jesus Christ)
>
> I was told by a medium that St. Germain works with me and that he calls me
> Enoch, Joseph Smith appeared to me years ago and told me my name was Enoch.
> As I was doing some research on the past incarnations of St. Germain I saw
> that he was Merlin and Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus.
>
> Enoch Theos
Subject:
corporatization v. the pearl
Date:
Sun, 02 Apr 2000 22:50:54 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus
,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black"
,
rpc man , Gaia D
Hail Mutants! I'm taking a little break from my thesis to hammer out a
new story for the Radical. Let me know what you think, and please feel
free to add your thoughts to the discussion area, if you like. Be
anonymous, or not, if you choose.
Conference Center is a watershed
The Church has some high quality images of the Conference Center here,
http://www.lds.org/med_inf/pre_kit_cc/pre_kit.html
and here.
http://www.lds.org/med_inf/gen_con_pho/index.html
We are in a new world. Events like this conference, and the Palmyra
Temple
http://www.lds.org/med_inf/pre_kit_pt/pre_kit.html
narrowcast are evidence that the Church is in the thick of the great
change that is
overtaking us. Much was made of this point in conference, both for and
against.
Were your ears open? Where do you stand? Should we be talking about
corporatization or a stone cut without hands? Either way, it fills the
world. In
Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinlein called this type of
situation a "moment
of crux". More comments and stories here.
http://greenspun.com/com/radical.mormon/conference.html
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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I was on the Mutant site and read the interesting story that was linked
in the Deseret News about DNA and genealogy. I wonder if this whole
thing will not be a two edged sword for BYU and LDSdoom in a similar
fashion as the rediscovery of the Egyptian papyri (ie. the Book of
Abraham) in the NY Museum of Art in the 1960's.
Woodward is a name that I am familiar with and I think that he is expert
at grandstanding his work, despite its low quality. Most folks forget
his (research) article that appeared in Science Magazine about 10 years
ago where he reported the first cloning of dinosar DNA. It was a big
plug for BYU and they beat the drum about it quite a bit. That is,
until it became one of those embarrassments (like cold fusion) when it
was reported (in Science) that his dinosaur DNA was a PCR artifactual
amplification of a bacterial DNA. Then there was the usual silence (of
denial that it happened) that comes after such embarassments.
More recently, Woodward has been making his news by doing analysis of
DNA from mummies. Fellows like Charles Pope are quoting Woodward a lot
in their own stuff about Moses, David and Solomon being Egyptian
pharoah's. Here is Pope's interesting website if you don't know what I
am talking about:
http://members.aol.com/ankhemmaat/home.htmAt any rate, the two-edged sword may
cut on the return path again when
Woodward's work is cited (by fellows like Pope) as evidence
contradictiory to LDS dogma. It will be interesting to see what
happens. In the case of the papyri, the church covered it over pretty
good by hiding them in its vaults and never mentioning the incident
again. We, the moron masses, have very short memories. There is some
irony here too, since Woodward has seemed to have kept his reputation
intact and is still a poster boy of BYU, despite the embarassing (yet
forgotten) scandal that emerged from his (and BYU's) earlier attempt at
fame.
Well, it is a pretty interesting story.
Randall
Well, today I guess I will fill my yearly quota of two emails to the
mutants. (c:
Yes, I am a bit surprised over your assessment of the conference center,
but I guess I have gotten more radical as time has marched on. One of
the things that floored me this past year was reading a book called
"Prophet of Death: The Blood Atonement Murders" which was a chronicle
of Jeffrey Lundgren and his followers. Jeffrey was a self-proclaimed
prophet that broke off from the RLDS, but later espoused many of the
doctrines that Brigham did, such as polygamy, the united order, blood
atonement, etc.
Parts of the book were so disgusting that they can not be talked about
in good company. One of the things that floored me were the words that
"prophet jeffrey" spoke. I found them to be identical to what so many
folks (like us) say on email lists like the Mutants, David's Outcasts,
Shulemna, etc. I wonder if Mormonism often breeds an type of insanity
that causes men to increase in unGodliness rather than the opposite.
Anyway, back to the conference center, I think that there is another
side that is plain, yet unrecognized by many. It is built right into
the structures in perfect symbolism. The conference center has a two
inch face of granite covering a structure of manmade stone (concrete)
and much of the structure is underground. These point to two things.
One is the facade of godliness, the other being (spiritual) death.
Symbols like this are built into the new temples (eg. Palmyra) too. Old
temples had many floors, which represented the progress of man from the
lower to the higher levels. The baptism font for the dead works for the
dead were underground. However, in the Palmyra temple, there is only
one floor. One enters the baptismal from the same level as houses the
celestial room. It seems the multi-levels of temples past have been
squeezed into one level, all of it being "ground level" today. I think
that these symbols tell us the unfortunate reality of contemporary
mormonism.
Randall
proclus wrote:
> > Hail Mutants! I'm taking a little break from my thesis to hammer out a
> new story for the Radical. Let me know what you think, and please feel
> free to add your thoughts to the discussion area, if you like. Be
> anonymous, or not, if you choose.
> > Conference Center is a watershed
> > The Church has some high quality images of the Conference Center here,
> > http://www.lds.org/med_inf/pre_kit_cc/pre_kit.html> > and here.
> > http://www.lds.org/med_inf/gen_con_pho/index.html> > We are in a new world.
> > Events like this conference, and the Palmyra
> Temple
> > http://www.lds.org/med_inf/pre_kit_pt/pre_kit.html> > narrowcast are
> > evidence that the Church is in the thick of the great
> change that is
> overtaking us. Much was made of this point in conference, both for and
> against.
> Were your ears open? Where do you stand? Should we be talking about
> corporatization or a stone cut without hands? Either way, it fills the
> world. In
> Stranger in a Strange Land, Robert Heinlein called this type of
> situation a "moment
> of crux". More comments and stories here.
> > http://greenspun.com/com/radical.mormon/conference.html> > Regards,
> proclus
> > --
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Subject:
gods.html
Date:
Fri, 19 May 2000 20:37:17 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus
,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black"
,
rpc man , Gaia D
I see that someone was trying to access the file again. Don't forget;
username: geek, password: indulgence. Here's the address again.
http://medici.penguinpowered.com/gods.html
Haven't heard much from anyone of late. I hope that you are all well.
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
Re: gods.html
Date:
Fri, 19 May 2000 20:31:55 PDT
From:
"rpc man"
To:
proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com,
ariel144@hotmail.com, enoch144@eaglehost.com, JSWICK@MINDSPRING.COM,
kathleen@enol.com, kshaw@dalsemi.com, shirtail@cyberhighway.net,
onandagus@webtv.net, tpfamily@dotplanet.net, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
black@accex.net, rpcman@hotmail.com, gaia_d@yahoo.com
>Haven't heard much from anyone of late. I hope that you are all well.
Well, I'm getting excommunicated in a week or so. I guess that will make me
well. ;) http://www.lds-mormon.com/myexcommunication.shtml
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Subject:
RE: gods.html
Date:
Fri, 19 May 2000 22:00:28 -0700
From:
"Joe Steve Swick III"
To:
"rpc man" , ,
, ,
, , ,
, ,
,
, , ,
RPC man! Congratulations/condolences on your excommunication.
Best Wishes Always,
Joe Swick
Heretic
-----Original Message-----
From: rpc man [mailto:rpcman@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:32 PM
To: proclus@mac.com; MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com; ArtdeHoyos@aol.com;
ariel144@hotmail.com; enoch144@eaglehost.com; JSWICK@MINDSPRING.COM;
kathleen@enol.com; kshaw@dalsemi.com; shirtail@cyberhighway.net;
onandagus@webtv.net; tpfamily@dotplanet.net; rds@acsu.buffalo.edu;
black@accex.net; rpcman@hotmail.com; gaia_d@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: gods.html
>Haven't heard much from anyone of late. I hope that you are all well.
Well, I'm getting excommunicated in a week or so. I guess that will make me
well. ;) http://www.lds-mormon.com/myexcommunication.shtml
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Subject:
RE: gods.html
Date:
Fri, 19 May 2000 23:13:23 -0600
From:
Kerry Shirts
To:
rpc man , "proclus@mac.com" ,
"MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com" ,
"ArtdeHoyos@aol.com" ,
"ariel144@hotmail.com" ,
"enoch144@eaglehost.com" ,
"kathleen@enol.com" ,
"kshaw@dalsemi.com" ,
"shirtail@cyberhighway.net" ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"tpfamily@dotplanet.net" ,
"rds@acsu.buffalo.edu" ,
"black@accex.net" ,
"gaia_d@yahoo.com" ,
"'Joe Steve Swick III'"
----------
From: Joe Steve Swick III[SMTP:jswick@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 11:00 PM
To: rpc man; proclus@mac.com; MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com;
ArtdeHoyos@aol.com; ariel144@hotmail.com; enoch144@eaglehost.com;
kathleen@enol.com; kshaw@dalsemi.com; shirtail@cyberhighway.net;
onandagus@webtv.net; tpfamily@dotplanet.net; rds@acsu.buffalo.edu;
black@accex.net; gaia_d@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: gods.html
RPC man! Congratulations/condolences on your excommunication.
Best Wishes Always,
Joe Swick
Heretic
Kerry says:
LAUGH!!!! You guys crack me up man. Hey RPCMan, I will always look at you
as a good soul and my brother, even though I harass you about some of your
silly ideas and misconceptions about the Book of Abraham (Not that I don't
have any of these myself! GRIN!).
Kerry A. Shirts
-----Original Message-----
From: rpc man [mailto:rpcman@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:32 PM
To: proclus@mac.com; MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com; ArtdeHoyos@aol.com;
ariel144@hotmail.com; enoch144@eaglehost.com; JSWICK@MINDSPRING.COM;
kathleen@enol.com; kshaw@dalsemi.com; shirtail@cyberhighway.net;
onandagus@webtv.net; tpfamily@dotplanet.net; rds@acsu.buffalo.edu;
black@accex.net; rpcman@hotmail.com; gaia_d@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: gods.html
>Haven't heard much from anyone of late. I hope that you are all well.
Well, I'm getting excommunicated in a week or so. I guess that will make me
well. ;) http://www.lds-mormon.com/myexcommunication.shtml
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Subject:
RE: gods.html
Date:
Fri, 19 May 2000 23:36:21 -0600
From:
Kerry Shirts
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Enoch Shemna ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black"
,
rpc man , Gaia D ,
"'proclus'"
I am very well so far thanks. A most interesting file I have to
admit.......This is the first I have ever seen it. Thanks for the accesss.
Kerry A. Shirts
----------
From: proclus[SMTP:proclus@mac.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 6:37 PM
To: Andy Mcguire; ArtdeHoyos; Beth any; Enoch Shemna; Joe Steve Swick III;
Kathleen McGuire; Ken Shaw; Kerry Shirts; onandagus@webtv.net; proclus; R.
Trent Reynolds; Randall Shortridge; Robert R. Black; rpc man; Gaia D
Subject: gods.html
I see that someone was trying to access the file again. Don't forget;
username: geek, password: indulgence. Here's the address again.
http://medici.penguinpowered.com/gods.html
Haven't heard much from anyone of late. I hope that you are all well.
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
Howdy from Ken Shaw!
Date:
Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:54:31 -0500
From:
Ken Shaw
To:
proclus@mac.com
Proclus,
I've been out of the picture for a while, as I've been deeply involved
with putting
my marriage back together. I'm sending on a piece I wrote on Sufism
that I would
like to ask that you pass it on to the gang.
I'm working on the Sufi thing in a much less obsessive way and am
gaining a whole new respect for the traditions and doctrines of the LDS
faith.
If you still got an email list going, please put me on it.
Con Dios,
Ken Shaw
---------------------------------------
An overview of "Universal Sufism"
Dr. H. J. Witteveen
by Ken Shaw
Introductory Comments:
The author of "Universal Sufism", Dr. H. J. Witteveen, grew up in a
family that was deeply involved with the work of
Hazrat Inayat Khan, an Indian classical musician and Sufi who attempted
to introduce Sufism into the West in the first
years of this century.
The pupose of the book is to present an introduction and overview of
both Sufism and the life and work of Hazrat Inayat
Khan.
Chapter One: The History and Origin of Sufism
Dr. Witteveen takes the position that Sufism is a living continuation of
the religious tradition of Ancient Egypt, especially
the tradition of Toth-Hermes who became known as Hermes Trismegistus in
Hellenistic times. He sees Dhul-Nun
al-Misti as the connecting link between Islamic Sufism and the Hermetic
tradition of Hellenistic Egypt. He quotes Hazrat
Inayat Khan as saying that Abraham built the Kaaba after his time in
Egypt, and that Abraham concentrated his inner force
into the Black Stone of the Kaaba as a memorial of the training he had
recieved in Egypt.
Dhul-Nun is of special interest to people in the West because he is the
founder of the Sufi school called "The Builders"
which was the inspiration of the Masonic Lodges of Europe. Dhul-Nun is
said to have learned to read the Egyptian
Hieroglyphs by means of the special insight he devolped by the
diciplines of the Path.
Dr. Witteveen sees the next key figure in the development of Sufism to
be in Persia by Shihabuddin Yahya al-Suhrawardi.
Suhrawardi worked out a brilliantly coherant synthesis of Islam,
Egyptian Hermeticism, Zoroastrianism, Neoplatonism and
Buddhism.
Dr. Witteveen notes the importance of Moses and Jesus in Persian Sufism,
Moses being mentioned as often as Krishna is
in Hinduism. He sees the Jesus as the main influence on the next key
figure in the development of Sufism, Mansur
al-Hallaj. Al-Hallaj proclaimed the "Sufi Secret" openly in public, and
it cost him his life. He understood what Jesus
meant when He said "whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" and "the
Father and I are one". Sufism understands
"The Father" to be "The-Whole-of-Existence-Itself" which is a single
living being. In this view, "God" is the only
"Being" that exists at all, and the various orders of "individual"
organisms are like minute "reflections" of that Absolute
Self in the ripples of Space-Time. Each one of us is like a
"Holographic Projection" of that One Self, our experience of
"seperatness" coming from our identification with the electro-chemical
organic machine which is picking up our
conciousness like a radio station.
Jesus followed a Path that allowed Him to "Realize the Self" and awaken
to His true identity, the One Absolute Self who
is God. It was like a person in a dream realizing that he is in a dream
and becoming fully conscious in that dream. He is
both the "dreamer" of the dream and one of the characters in the dream,
but he realizes the truth of both the "waking world"
and the "dreaming world" he is in.
The first followers of Jesus refered to what they were doing as "The
Way", and they understood "the Way" to be a
tradition of "inner development" that went back to the begining of man's
presence on Earth. The Sufis believe that they are
following this very same Way. Al-Hallaj began to announce his own
awakening to his friends in no uncertain terms when
he said to them:
"Ana' al Haqq" -- "I Am The Truth"
The word got out that Al-Hallaj was proclaiming that he was God, and the
orthodox religious authorities of Baghdad had
him arrested. He was eventualy crucified and dismembered for his
"crime", but his passion changed the course of history in
the East and the West and established Sufism as a permanent feature of
Islamic life.
Dr. Witteveen points out that later Beyazid Bastami was able to proclaim
"Glory to Me" and come to no harm, because
Al-Hallaj had forced Islamic civilization to come to terms with the
paradoxes of mystical realization.
He points out the importance of the city of Balkh in Turkistan for its
ancient connections to Buddhism and Yoga from India.
Balkh is the birthplace of "sober" Sufism which places more emphasis on
silent concentration and psychological insight
than on the more outwardly "religious" forms of devotion.
Dr. Witteveen finishes this chapter with the introduction of Sufism into
India, where it began to bridge the gulf between
Islam and Hinduism and heal some of the deep wounds that seperated the
two communities. The Hindu sages and yogis
could see eye-to-eye with the Sufis and embrace them as brethren, and
the tombs of Sufi saints are revered as much by
Hindus as they are by Muslims in India.
My only real problem with this brief overview of Sufi history is that it
never mentions Muhammed or the tradition that has
survived among the Arabs since the days of Abraham. Moses went to
Jethro, "Priest of the Midianites" in the Arabian
desert to find shelter and a new direction for his life.
The Midianites were a fierce Bedouin people who had lived in the Arabian
peninsula since the time of Abraham their
father. They lived in deep devotion to the God of their father Abraham,
"Yahu Saboath" (Yahu of Warriors), and it was
while with Jethro that Moses met the God of Abraham who called Himself
"Yahue" (Eternal) and "Hayah" (I Am). The
Midianite Arabs had kept the living contact with the God a Abraham
alive, and it was from them that Moses got the key to
his own Prophetic mission. There is a whole story to be learned about
how Jethro came to Moses and the Israelites after
the Exodus and taught Moses how to be a tribal Chief. The decendants of
Jethro accompanied the Camp of Israel from then
on and kept alive thier secret tribal traditions.
These decendants of Jethro where later known as the Rechabites in the
Land of Israel, where they kept alive their ancient
Abrahamic Bedouine lifestyle, never touching wine or cutting their hair
or beards. It was from them that the tradition of the
"Nazarite" came, which came from the word "Netzerim" which means
"Keepers of Secrets". The decendants of Jethro, the
Rechabites, where the "Keepers of Secrets" that kept the ancient
Abrahamic mysteries alive and functioning until the
coming of Jesus and his brother James the Just.
So Sufism isn't just an amalgam of various streams of esotericism from
Egypt to India, it is the true core of the whole
Biblical tradition that comes down from Adam to Seth to Enoch to Noah to
Melchezidek to Abraham to Moses to Jesus to
Muhammed.
Kenneth Shaw
posted on the Donmeh forum
Fri, 21 May 1999
Subject:
A Suprising View for Your Consideration
Date:
Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:00:21 -0700
From:
"Joe Steve Swick III"
To:
CC:
"Mormon-Mystic@Egroups. Com"
Brutal Planet (Alice Cooper) Download the MP3 at:
http://www.alicecoopershow.com
We're spinning round on this ball of hate
There's no parole, there's no Great Escape
We're sentenced here until the end of days
And then, my brother, there's a price to pay
We're only human, we were born to die
Without the benefit of reason why
We live for pleasure, to be satisfied
And now it's over -- there's no place to hide
Why don't you come down, too
It's such a brutal planet
It's such an ugly world
Why won't you come down, too
"This world is such perfection" (What a sight)
"It's just like paradise" (For my eyes)
"A truly grand creation" (What a sight)
"From up here it looks so nice" (For my eyes)
It's such a brutal planet
It's such a living hell
It was a holy garden
That's right where Adam fell
It's where the bite was taken
It's where we chose to sin
It's where we first were naked
This is where our death begins
We took advice from that deceiving snake
He said don't worry it's a piece of cake
And sent us swimming in a burning lake
Now we're abandoned here for Heaven's sake
Why don't you come down, too
It's such a brutal planet
It's such an ugly world
Why won't you come down, too
"This world is such perfection" (What a sight)
"It's just like paradise" (For my eyes)
"A truly grand creation" (What a sight)
"From up here it looks so nice" (For my eyes)
Here's where we keep the armies
Here's where we write those names
Here's where the money god is
Here's our famous hall of shame
Here's where we starve the hungry
Here's where we cheat the poor
Here's where we beat the children
Here is where we pay the whore
Why don't you come down, too
It's such a brutal planet
It's such an ugly world
Why won't you come down, too
"This world is such perfection" (What a sight)
"It's just like paradise" (For my eyes)
"A truly grand creation" (What a sight)
"From up here it looks so nice" (For my eyes)
Right here we stoned the prophets
Built idols out of mud
Right here we fed the lions
Christian flesh and Christian blood
Down here is where we hung Ya
Upon an ugly cross
Over there, we filled the ovens
Right here the holocaust!
Subject:
radical stories etc
Date:
Sun, 09 Jul 2000 20:28:51 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Enoch Shemna , Gaia D ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw ,
Kerry Shirts ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , proclus
,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Randall Shortridge , "Robert R. Black"
,
rpc man
Heh, with the "demise" of World Gems, this increases our profile, no?
It's mostly fluff over there at lds.org. Here are the most recent
stories from the Radical.
The Invasion of the Saints!
Thanks to Genee France for this interesting story at Time.com from a
perspective
that is often forgotten in Mormon circles. Here is the link, and add
your comments
here.
LDS World Gems bites the big one
The Church has brought Gems inside and now controls the most popular
solely online
LDS News source. Check the link here, then speak your mind here.
Here is a link to the Radical, just in case you lost it =}.
https://proclus.tripod.com/radical/
As a result of the merger, we need more websites for the sidebar of the
radical. If you have any suggestions, just pass them along. Hey, how
about Mormon Libertarians! Actually, I'm favoring the Greens this time
around. The trouble is that the term "free trade" has become a
euphemism that actually provides propoganda towards monopoly protection.
Here is a little more news... I'm planning on taking a post-doctoral
fellowship at Cornell, which is in Ithaca NY. More on that later, as
the plan gets fleshed out.
Regards,
proclus
--
Visit proclus realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/
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Subject:
Re: [Fwd: mutant discussions]
Date:
Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:25:04 -0400
From:
Randall Shortridge
Organization:
State University of New York
To:
proclus
CC:
Andy Mcguire ,
ArtdeHoyos , Beth any ,
Enoch Shemna , Gaia D ,
Joe Steve Swick III ,
Kathleen McGuire , Ken Shaw