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Subject:
tibetan script
Date:
Fri, 08 May 1998 17:12:29 -0400
From:
Michael Love
To:
Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge ,
Beth any , proclus ,
rpc man , Gaia ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"Neoptolmus@aol.com" , Dave ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Theurgus , himmel@mozart.rose.brandeis.edu,
Julie Love
You may know that the Dalai Lama is visiting Brandeis this weekend.
Every time I turn around, I'm getting my socks knocked off. I thought
that some of you would appreciate this.
In preparation for Dalai Lama's visit, the Nepalese nuns made a sand
mandala. I was drawn to it yesterday after lunch. It is fabulously
beautiful and intricate. When he goes there today, he will ritually
destroy it. The sand will be washed into the river. I believe that
this ritual symbolizes the transience of our earthly lives and
endeavors. They have also constructed a shrine.
As I wandered about looking things over, the nuns gathered on the
floor. They kneeled in a line, with shaved heads and beautiful burgundy
robes with saffron draped over the left shoulder. Each of them had a
saffron bundle at their side. There was a teapot with peacock feathers
stuck in it, which they would point at the shrine with bowed head.
Then they started to sing. I was enthralled by their droning chant.
Now and then, they rang bells, blew horns, and beat the drum. I'm
committed to get a recording of this music. I began to realize how much
these tones had influenced popular music in the west from the 60's
onward.
While singing, they opened their bundles, and put on beautiful colored
robes and aprons. They put pointy hats on their heads, with a little
wigs attached. The bangs, just covered some of their eyes. They topped
it off with a big silver crown. Several gestures were made towards the
shrine. I would have fallen out of my chair, but I was still swooning
from the beautiful chanting.
It lasted over an hour. What an experience! When it was over, there
was no clapping. Everyone there was very quiet... reverent.
Afterwards, I bought some greeting cards from the nuns. They pictured
paintings which the nuns had made and some tibetan script. I was
immediately taken by the interesting script, which seemed oddly Semitic,
like a rectilinear cross between hebrew and arabic, stylized chinawise.
Today, I mentioned this to my devout conservative jewish friend. (We
have endless discussions of religion, archeology, etc.) When he checked
it out, he found hebrew characters in the tibetan script! He pointed
these out to one of the nuns, no expert, who told him that tibetan
alphabet was derived from sanskrit.
Now, he shares my interest in the cross-contacts between Tibet and the
mesopotamian basin. If we find anything else, I will surely pass it on
to you all, my friends. Coming back into the modern, it is interesting
that there are many parallels between the chinese persecution of Tibet,
and the jewish diaspora.
That's it for now. If any of you can further illuminate any of these
points, I'm sure that it would be appreciated. Thanx in advance.
proclus
Subject:
Re: biography
Date:
Mon, 04 May 1998 10:26:16 -0400
From:
Randall Shortridge
Organization:
State University of New York
To:
proclus
CC:
Andy Mcguire , Kathleen McGuire ,
"R. Trent Reynolds" , Joe Steve Swick III ,
ArtdeHoyos , rpc man ,
Gaia , "Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Dave , "onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"neoptolmus@aol.com" , Beth any ,
Theurgus
References:
1
> bio snipped off to save bandwidth.
Alex. Excellent Bio. I really enjoyed reading it. Makes me feel that
there might be hope for the son of my Branch President who is currently
on his mission in England and is due to be back this summer. He was one
of the scouts in my troop before I got booted for marching out of
lockstep. The son was an honest fellow, but his father is a real Nazi.
Randall
Subject:
noters from Sufi class 5/7/98
Date:
Sat, 09 May 1998 18:47:05 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Theurgus
To:
proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com,
jswick@cris.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, ariel144@hotmail.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, gaia@nmol.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
dcombe@rain.org, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, himmel@mozart.rose.brandeis.edu,
JLove@ACTMedical.com
CC:
m-kabbalah@makelist.com
notes from Sufi class 5/7/98
MR.DOC
Name:
MR.DOC
Type:
Microsoft Word Document (application/msword)
Encoding:
base64
Subject:
Mormon Ethnographies
Date:
Mon, 11 May 1998 18:44:47 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Beth any
To:
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com,
ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, ariel144@hotmail.com, proclus@mac.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, gaia@nmol.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
dcombe@rain.org, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, Theurgus@aol.com,
himmel@mozart.rose.brandeis.edu
I have 2 quick but important questions for ya. Geez I wish I had
more time (and my own computer) to be a regular Mutant again.
Make that 3 questions - the one I just thought of - Is Ken Shaw
still on this list? PLease Ken or somebody let me know... miss ya man.
Anyway - I admit I am writing to you before I have even done my own
survey of the web to find out - but I need to know if anyone can direct
me to anything having to do with Mormonism from a strictly
anthropological perspective. I need an ethnography or to be able to show
that someone somewhere at some time has studied Mormonism in this
way - particularly early mormonism but anything will do.
Secondly, Michael: Are all of the Mutant posts archived or just
the "good" ones? Got any website addresses for me where I can access
them?
Thank you x 100! Anyone who can help me, may your karma come back to you
100 fold.
Beth
Subject:
Howdy Lizabeth!
Date:
Mon, 11 May 1998 23:57:40 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Theurgus
To:
ariel144@hotmail.com, m-kabbalah@makelist.com
CC:
MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, jswick@cris.com,
ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, proclus@mac.com, rpcman@hotmail.com,
gaia@nmol.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com, dcombe@rain.org,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, Theurgus@aol.com, himmel@mozart.rose.brandeis.edu
Beth!
My email to you was bouncing, it's great to have you back.
I've been pretty busy being a single Dad with two teenagers,
and keeping up with my Sufi stuff. I've been sending copies
of my session notes to the Mutants. I've attached the latest
installment to this mail. Let me know if you want the rest.
The Ethnography stuff is important because it strikes to the
root of the original intention of the Mormon experience. The
study of southern Utah and northern Arizona is especially
important. If Mormonism has any meaning at all anymore,
it is in the folk life of the old United Order communities.
That is why the modern church has shunned the "volkisch"
communities of Mormon Fundamentalists down in Orderville
and Short Creek. They alone shelter the flame of our ethnicity.
I love you babe,
Ken
Muke,
This is a Buddhist fiend of mine at work. He is also the first person I
loaned your Don White CD to and he loved it! He said he also visited your
website briefly and would do so again soon. He was impressed with your
peculairness. Sometimes, so am I.
loveyabye
JL
> ----------
> From: Steve Karp
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 11:27 AM
> To: Julie Love
> Subject: RE: tibetan script
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julie Love
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 11:08 AM
> To: Steve Karp
> Subject: FW: tibetan script
>
> Julie-
>
> The construction of a sand mandala may take months, but the mandala is
> built with the intent of recognizing its impermanence (the impermanance of
> all things is a central concept in Buddhism) both through the materials of
> which it is constructed and its destruction. The Brandeis mandala is
> unusual because, to my knowledge, it is only the second to be built in the
> United States by nuns, and the first where the Dalai Lama participated in
> the dismantling. The nuns (who I think are Tibetan, not Nepalese, but I
> may be wrong) had previously done a similar work at Trinity College in
> Hartford. The Dalai Lama's involvement is a significant message of
> egalitarianism as this is normally man's work. In most, but not all,
> schools of Buddhism, a strict separation is maintained between monastics
> and the opposite sex. Also, in most Buddhist schools, women occupy an
> inferior position to men.
>
> Tibetan script is derived from Sanskrit. The Tibetan people are
> predominantly of Indo-Aryan origin as are many of the residents of western
> Asia, Europe, and the Indian subcontinent. At this point the minority of
> the residents of Tibet are native Tibetan; the majority is Han (Chinese).
> As a result the approximately 4.5 million Tibetan exiles do bear a
> superficial resemblence to the Jewish diaspora.
>
> -Steve
Subject:
`GADIANTON': VOLATILE ISSUES -- WITH NO EASY ANSWERS
Date:
Wed, 13 May 1998 09:58:01 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , rpc man ,
Gaia , "Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>,
Dave , "onandagus@webtv.net" ,
"neoptolmus@aol.com" , Beth any ,
Theurgus
http://utahonline.sltrib.com/97/JAN/31/tca/22085518.htm
I thought that some of you would appreciate this rather dated story.
Definitely some radical mormon influences happening here, I'd say ;-}.
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
Sufi notes 5/21/98
Date:
Thu, 21 May 1998 23:06:04 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Theurgus
To:
jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com,
trent@goodnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu, ariel144@hotmail.com,
rpcman@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com, dcombe@rain.org,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, BLove89890@aol.com, love@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU,
JLove@ACTMedical.com,
Shawn_M._Love/CLS/RYDERSYSTEMINC/US%RYDERSYSTEMINC@ryder.com, cybro@iname.com
CC:
younbarb@isu.edu, bbrandt@intel.chips.com, kens@cyrix.com, m-kabbalah@makelist.com
Hail Mutants!
I hope you folks are OK with my sending this stuff.
The talks are simply an extraordinary thing to experience.
These folks have centers all over the US and the world.
Even in Salt Lake. Here's the link if you want to check it out:
M.T.O.
Shahmaghsoudi® About Sufism
Thanks folks,
Ken Shaw
Subject:
Sufi notes 5/21/98
Date:
Thu, 21 May 1998 23:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Theurgus
To:
Theurgus@aol.com, jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com,
kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
ariel144@hotmail.com, rpcman@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
dcombe@rain.org, 74277.3365@compuserve.com, BLove89890@aol.com,
love@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU, JLove@ACTMedical.com,
Shawn_M._Love/CLS/RYDERSYSTEMINC/US%RYDERSYSTEMINC@ryder.com, cybro@iname.com
CC:
younbarb@isu.edu, bbrandt@intel.ichips.com, kens@cyrix.com, m-kabbalah@makelist.com
notes
Notes 5/21/98
Mr. Sabourie talked about the "self" as contrasted with the "I". He said that the "self" is
simply an
accretion of externally imposed neurological conditioning, and the "I" is the actual
"experiencer" that
came into this world from someplace else. He said that the false "self" is applied layer upon
layer, like
bad wallpaper, by parents, religions, schools, governments and the general chaos called "culture",
until
the "I" is completely buried and falls "asleep" from the suffocation.
Mr. Sabourie said that the work of the Path is to peel away the gross accretions, refuse to
passively take
on new conditioning and to "polish" the "I" until it becomes the perfect "mirror" of "Present
Awareness" .
Mr. Sabourie said that the false "selves" of every person are accidental accumulations of
neurological
conditioning, kind of like a coral reef built up of nervous "ticks". Every persons bag of
hang-ups that
he believes to be "himself" is individual and unique, whereas the "true self", the "I" is none
other than
the Absolute One, what is called "God". There is only one "Absolute One", therefore there is a
single
"I" that is the "True Self" of every being. So when Jesus said "Whatever you do to anyone you are
doing it to Me", He was being absolutely literal! There is only one "I", and it manifests through
the
infinite variety of "individual" organisms.
The work if the Path is to peel away the false "self", so that the True "I" can burst forth into
the world,
like Jesus bursting forth from the tomb, like the Light Shining in the Darkness for the salvation
of the
world. Each "individual" organism is a unique manifestation of the "Absolute One", the Plenitude
of
the Absolute being such that It's riches will never be exhausted. Each "individual" is a unique
and
never to be repeated expression of the Eternal "I", each org anism like a shining facet of a single
diamond.
The work if the Path is the struggle to "Awaken" from the "sleep of death". Anytime our awareness
is not
Present, in the Here-And-Now, then we are lost in the mental imagery of the false "self", and are
technically
"Asleep". The role of the Teacher is to do whatever it takes to "Awaken" us, before we suffer the
ultimate
loss called the "Second Death", even if it feels like cruelty to the student. "Fresh water tastes
bitter to
a sick man". "A freezing man just wants to be left alone to sleep".
Mr. Sabourie gave detailed instructions on eating and breathing practice. He said to eat half as
much but
chew twice as long. It is good to always feel a little hungry. He described the breathing
practice like this:
1) Sit with the spine as straight as possible to allow the greatest possible expansion of the
chest and abdomen.
2) Inhale through the nose, into the lower abdomen, until the belly and lower torso is expanded
as much as possible.
3) Finish the inhale by filling the chest cavity as much as possible, lifting the shoulders to
"top-off" the lungs.
4) Hold the breath for as long as possible, feeling the exchange of gasses taking place as the
"freshening" sensation
in the lungs.
5) Exhale slowly, feeling the flow of air, until the chest and lower belly are completely empty.
6) Press the lower abdomen in and "up" as far as it will go, try to press the abdominal wall
against the spine in the
back. This will force the very last bits of old air out.
7) It is best to practice at sunrise and sunset, when the "gap" between the worlds opens and the
"Freshening" breeze
flows into the world. Do at least fifteen minutes a session, but please feel free to do as much
as three hours a session.
These practices may be carried out without any special permission any will benefit anyone who is
faithful.
Kenneth Shaw
Mr. Sabourie talked about the true self. He said we are born with the true self, and when
people(our parents, friends etc.)
tell us things, we start to create a false self on top of our true self. He said it was like when
a piece of paper(the false self)
cover the luminous entity(the true self). When one piece of paper covers the luminous self, the
light still shines through, but
eventually the light will be blocked out completely. The prophets came to help us see our true
selves, and when people don't
understand the prophets, it's because the false self if blocking it out.
Jacob Shaw
Mr. Sabourie talked today about character, your true character, and false character. Your
true character is none other than
the true self, the "I", the divine spark. Your false self is everything you have gathered in your
head about the world. The false
self covers the true self, unless we take action and peel back the layers of false character, and
replace it with the teachings that
help you find your true character. Knowledge, thoughts, and words are useless and unreal, unless
we take actions based on them, a map
to a treasure is not the treasure itself.
Mr. Sabourie also described the breathing and eating practices of the path. One should
eat half of what is normally eaten,
and eat slowly, and be PRESENT in the action. One should breathe abdominaly using the diaphragm
at first and only at the very end
use the chest. Also one MUST be present when breathing.
Joshua Shaw
Subject:
Re: Sufi notes 5/21/98
Date:
Thu, 21 May 1998 23:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Beth any
To:
Theurgus@aol.com, jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com, MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com,
kathleen@enol.com, trent@goodnet.com, ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
rpcman@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com, dcombe@rain.org,
74277.3365@compuserve.com, BLove89890@aol.com, love@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU,
JLove@ACTMedical.com,
Shawn_M._Love/CLS/RYDERSYSTEMINC/US%RYDERSYSTEMINC@ryder.com, cybro@iname.com
CC:
younbarb@isu.edu, bbrandt@intel.ichips.com, kens@cyrix.com, m-kabbalah@makelist.com
Ken -
Are Jacob and Joshua your sons? Have they been going with you?
Did I read that correctly, those little addemdums there?
Anyway, I vote to keep up the notes. I like 'em.
Beth
>From theurgus@aol.com Thu May 21 20:19:35 1998
>Received: from Theurgus@aol.com
> by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id JASJa03031;
> Thu, 21 May 1998 23:17:40 +2000 (EDT)
>From: Theurgus
>Message-ID: ?eceb.3564ee55@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:17:40 EDT
>To: Theurgus@aol.com, jswick@cris.com, proclus@mac.com,
> MCGUIREA@a1.bellhow.com, kathleen@enol.com,
trent@goodnet.com,
> ArtdeHoyos@aol.com, rds@acsu.buffalo.edu,
ariel144@hotmail.com,
> rpcman@hotmail.com, onandagus@webtv.net, Neoptolmus@aol.com,
> dcombe@rain.org, 74277.3365@compuserve.com,
BLove89890@aol.com,
> love@binah.cc.brandeis.edu, JLove@ACTMedical.com,
> Shawn_M._Love/CLS/RYDERSYSTEMINC/US%RYDERSYSTEMINC@ryder.com,
> cybro@iname.com
>Cc: younbarb@isu.edu, bbrandt@intel.ichips.com, kens@cyrix.com,
> m-kabbalah@makelist.com
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Subject: Sufi notes 5/21/98
>Content-type: multipart/mixed;
> boundary="part0_895807060_boundary"
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>
>notes
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Subject:
Re: Sufi notes 5/21/98
Date:
Fri, 22 May 1998 10:31:02 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , rpc man , Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
Beth any , Theurgus
References:
1
Theurgus wrote:
>
> Hail Mutants!
>
> I hope you folks are OK with my sending this stuff.
Ken, You are a humble guy (don't get the big head! ;-}). You have rekindled
my interest in Sufism, and it has been very rewarding. I loved this quote
from the link. It is amazing to me how frankly and lucidly the Sufis describe
what they are trying to do.
As you can see from the above, Sufism is a discipline, a
system of education that transforms humans from their
base state, to their divine state. Each of the stages brings
with it a change, a revolution and evolution for the seeker.
This agrees extremely well with my impression from Shah's _The Sufis_. I
loved
"The Islanders", an allegory which really turned the lights on for me. I'm
astounded by the parallels to space migration, preexistance, and the souls journey.
Their Arabic coding scheme is in refreshing contrast to the cabala. When I'm
reading this stuff, I feel like I'm imprinting wisdom.
I'm also reading Rushkoff's _Stoned Free_ right now. He talks about how the
getting high is hard wired, an inate human ability. I am struck that the
Sufis are assiduously trying to rapidly activate these divine circuits in as
many people as they can.
Is this graduate level Mormonism? Mormons talk about our godly potential, our
divine parentage, but seem obsessed with the basics. Strangely, some of the
very technologies that lead to activation are sanctioned. We don't seem to
make the connection that the ultimate goal is not righteousness, per se, but
rather a godly, that is, a godlike life. And how do you live a godly life?
By *activating* your world-transcending, divine potential. It seems to me
that this is exactly what the Sufis are trying to do. They are very explicit
about it.
Maybe Mormonism is merely more cautious. It may be that premature activation
can have negative effects. This is something that the Learys are Rushkoffs
don't seem to address. If these circuits are teleological, don't you risk
messing up the plan by activating prematurely. I have made the argument that
Eden's sin was partaking of the fruit _prematurely_.
Many of the sins (maybe all) can be viewed as premature activation.
Fornication is premature marriage. Adultery is premature polygamy. Drugs
give us premature rewards. Even killing can be a godly act, but when it is
done prematurely, it is called murder. These four sins can be among the most
damning. They can destroy our potential instead of activating it. You see my
worry about the whole idea of human apotheosis? The years have taught me caution.
Nevertheless, I love being activated, and walking blissfully about. I never
feel love as deeply as I do when I'm high. I don't talk much anymore about
righteousness, but rather the godly life. We are not perfect yet, but we are
trying. We can repent and be white as wool. Ask not what Jesus would do in
this situation, but rather what God would do. We can be close to God and live
a divine life now. I am calling this the dispensation of the Father. He
wants us to be like Him. In the dispensation of the Father this injunction is
taken _very_ seriously. This is not laying aside the atonement, but rather
_validating_ it. Jesus smiles at a peer, glory be to God.
Thanks Ken, for being there. I admire your assiduousness as well. Keep those
Sufi posts coming. I'm saving them, and we may archive them on the website
eventually. It's a Urim and Thummim. I may not have time to read every one,
but the gems are blowing me away.
proclus
--
Visit proclus' realm! http://www.proclus-realm.com/home.html
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Subject:
Secretum secretorum
Date:
Thu, 28 May 1998 00:33:28 -0400
From:
proclus
To:
Michael Love , Andy Mcguire ,
Kathleen McGuire , "R. Trent Reynolds" ,
Joe Steve Swick III , ArtdeHoyos ,
Randall Shortridge , rpc man , Gaia ,
"Robert R. Black" ?.3365@compuserve.com>, Dave ,
"onandagus@webtv.net" , "neoptolmus@aol.com" ,
Beth any , Theurgus
Tonight I'm enjoying Jerimiah Genest's interesting website. He treats the
Book of the secrets of secrets. I noted that the book was translated from
Arabic. I believe that this was recommended by someone on this site (??).
Anyways, it is so quiet around here that I thought to supplement my ramblings
with an excerpt.
> Theurgy, from the Greek theourgia means literally something like "actuating the divine" and
refers to actions that induce or
> bring about the presence of a divine or supernatural being, whether in an artifact or a person.
It was a practice closely related
> to magic - not least in its ritual use of material things, sacrifices, and verbal formulas to
effect the believer's fellowship with
> the god, demon or departed spirit. It is distinguished from ordinary magical practices less by
its techniques than by its aim,
> which was religious (union with the divine) rather than secular. use of the term theourgia as
well as of the related
> theourgos, referring to a practioner of the art - arose in the second century CE in Hellenistic
circles closely associated with
> the birth of Neoplatonism. The practice was commended and followed, in the third and later
centuries, by certain Neolatonist
> philosophers and their disciples.[27]
I feel that this notion of Theurgy encapsulates what I was trying to say
earlier regarding the Sufis and the activation of the divine within us. It is
the science of godhood. Ken, is this what you are talking about when you link
Sufism to Neoplatonism and the emergence of modern science? I also take this
as an alternative definition of Mormonism.
I guess that I have something in common with my namesake after all ;-}.
proclus
PS, here is the address, if you are interested.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wgenest/index.html
If you want to join the discussion, just click here..
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