ContraStephThread
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PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/11/92 11:34 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/10 7:58 AM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Where in the world did you get your information from?
I thought this was an "Art" Board on non-fiction books. You
seem to be writing your own, with no book references at all.
Either list your sources, or find your place under Fiction.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/11/92 11:34 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/10 6:27 PM
TO: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Enlighten me!! What are you referring to (pardon the
preposition)? I am not an author. I am a truth seeker.
Fiction doesn't impress me.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/12/92 0:37 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/11 10:02 AM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
In response to your question:
You claim you are not an author, yet in the last 48 hours
you have written no less than 32 pages (of public Notes and
Replies) under various Mormon discussions.
You ask me to "enlighten" you, yet by reading your own notes
and replies, I am sure you are well aware of your course.
You claim to be a student, yet the tone of your questions
directed to members have revealed more opinion than fact.
When you profess (and I quote from posted pubic replies),
that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
receives $6 million a day from tithes, you offer no source
on your finding, nor any stated document to confirm.
You quote temple workers as having authority to place
garments upon members of the church, yet you offer no
written source or further reading for others to pursue.
You claim that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, in the early days, received no blessings from the
practice of polygamy. Yet you offer no source on your
finding or where others can seek further reading.
You claim that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints does not use the Joseph Smith Translation of the
Bible, yet you offer no written source to church policy.
You claim that the belief of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints is that Jesus Christ pre-existed with
Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, yet you offer no
resource to your claims and findings, nor any references to
further reading.
My Note in questioning your discussion and where it needs to
appear relates to your lack of quoting resources for this
Bulletin Board (BOOKS/NON-FICTION). If Prodigy members
cannot quote Non-Fiction Books as Resource Material, then
the Notes and Replies belong, in my opinion, under the
adjacent board titled "BOOKS/FICTION".
Michael J. Lancaster, Editor
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/12/92 0:38 AM
API Television News
Universal City, California
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: DAVID HARRISON (TKTH86E)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Dear Stephenie . . .
If your dislike for fiction is on target, then I suggest
you list a bibliography for all replies and notes on this
board when offering personal opinion on Mormon Doctrine.
>>>
As for claiming you are a student of Mormon Doctrine, I
find it strange to see you debate your points, rather than
choose the open door approach of distinguished discussion
with no harm to members who happen to be Mormons.
David Harrison, Director (Ret)
Carnegie Endowment Foundation
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/11/92 11:35 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/11 9:00 PM
TO: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
FROM: MARK SPALDING (NCKD73A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Agreed. I was surprised to find a debate raging between
Mormons and their detractors on the Arts Board under
Non-Fiction. Much as I have added to the debate, I cannot
understand what work of non-fiction (unless it is the Book
of Mormon, which is, ironically, a tacit admission of its
authenticity) is being discussed. I have been aware of the
debate for three days now; and not once have I noticed a
reference to any particular book. I am surprised that the
board editors have permitted the debate to continue, and
think it would be more appropriately located on the HOMELIFE
board. Having read Stephenie's reply to the parent note,
and her passionate attacks on Mormon theology, I tend, as a
Mormon, to agree that her comments could be classed as
fiction; or at least, the source materials for her comments,
as these tend to put a curious slant on our beliefs, such
that I fail at times to recognize them. Be that as it may,
I enjoy the debate, and I am glad there is a forum for it; I
only wish that it could be somewhat more objective. How-
ever, when it comes to religion, passion is the nature of
the beast; and at least debate is safer than an all out
Jihad!
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/11/92 11:35 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/11 9:02 PM
TO: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Excuse me, sir. I never mentioned the use of the JST in any
of my notes to my knowledge. You have me confused with
someone else. I do have sources. I have many books among
them the standard works of the church. The most important
of these is the King James Version of the Bible. I have
stated many quotes on here with reference. To reference ALL
that is said, each of us would be here all day typing and >
reading. I am sure in your line of work, if every reference
were printed and imposed on readers to wade through them,
the newspaper would be too large to carry---or would it?
Stephenie Orris
Christian/nurse/mother
Ohio, U.S.A.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/11/92 11:36 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/11 9:03 PM
TO: DAVID HARRISON (TKTH86E)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Sir, I said I was a seeker of truth not a student of
Mormonism persee'. I would suggest that we ALL list
reference material when stating an opinion. Is that
possible? I state one quote from a reliable source and
suddenly I am challenged. There are 100's of people in
*P-land who have access to that same information. It has
been hinted in various areas of this board. I do believe>>
in the very near future that such info will be shared with
others here. I can assure you at this point I will not be
posting this information. But I am sure there are some who
will and I believe they will list their resourses. Thank you
for the reply.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/12/92 0:21 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/11 12:16 PM
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/12/92 0:31 AM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO: NCKD73A
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
DATE: 03/12/1992
Mark
Have you read any post in this subject? We are discussing
specific quotations from the nonfiction works of Mr. Dave
Hunt. As a Mormon, would you have the bible and the BOM
relegated to the fiction topic? Has anyone heard of the
religious arts? To drive religious discussion from the
nonfic bb would be an affront to believers as well as to our
"distinguished discussion".
Speaking of that, does anyone think that our distinguished
gentlemen are for real? They seem to check out, but I'm not
sure yet.
merely
proclus
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/13/92 3:07 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/12 9:53 PM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: CYNTHIA AVONDALE (SJXK52A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Ms. Orris,
Why offer personal opinion on this Non-Fiction Board,
when you have the Fiction Board to espouse your views?
Cynthia
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/13/92 3:09 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/12 9:54 PM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: STEWART GARLAND (PRVM96A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
TO STEPH,
I find it interesting you claiming not to be a Mormon
author. I took the advice and looked up all of your posted
notes and replies for the last 4 weeks. My printer couldn't
contain the reams of written "personal opinion" that you
offer on debating the Mormon Church! You seem to keep your
focus narrowed only to the LDS church where the debate of
your arguments have proven hot. I ask to what end do you
wish to continue, if not being an author of fictional works?
Mr. Lancaster and Mr. Harrison's observations on your posts
are accurate, in that you neglect to reference any
Non-Fiction Books to support your claims! By claiming these
references will be forthcoming, and that you will not
dilvulge their works, classes your opinions as fictional. I
believe you have found the wrong board to offer such
entertainment, and that your style and views will be a
welcome delight under the area of BOOKS/FICTION. It sort of
reminds me of a lawyer who attends a yacht club meeting to
debate the latest Supreme Court ruling. His/her fellow club
members simply say "Hey, you have good stuff to offer, but
not here. Go preach it at the court house with the rest of
the (fictional) characters.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/13/92 3:10 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/12 9:54 PM
TO: DAVID HARRISON (TKTH86E)
FROM: ALLAN RIFLEMAN (NHPC34A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
David,
And what is wrong with debate? Dabate is good for the
soul.
Allan
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/13/92 3:11 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/12 9:54 PM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: SANDRA NORTHINGTON (MFVC98A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Your statement of not being an author amazes me! You
have written enough material on this subject to print two or
three paperbacks.
Just print them up and have it said "written by
Stephenie Orris, Fictional Writer". Then you can offer all
the opinion you want and list yourself as a reference!
That should solve the concerns of other Prodigy Members
except that you'll still be a fictional writer!
Why not take the time to list your sources and
references and become Non-Fiction? Even church ministers
quote from references. When they stop doing that, it becomes
personal opinion, such as yours.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/13/92 3:12 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/12 9:54 PM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: WILLIAM SPENCER (FTCN50A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Well excussssssssse me!
Since when are we allowed to change the *P* rules on
participating in non-fiction discussion? I suggest re-read
the rules of board guidelines. And then pay NOTICE to where
you are! (NON-FICTION!) List non-fiction sources when
offering personal advice, or look in on the FICTION board.
We don't need fantasy island thinking on non-fiction boards.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/13/92 3:33 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TO: BXXF11A
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
DATE: 03/13/1992
I addressed this note to myself since I still have a little
problem with the course of this debate in general. This
isn't some stuffy old journal subject to peer review and
strict documentation. Most of us are simple folks right?
Those of us who make actual contributions to the discussions
in these subject have equal access to common texts which
many of us have been studying our whole lives. This kind of
familiarity results in an assumed knowledge of the
documentation. If anyone had asked Stephenie for her
sources in response to any one post, I am certain that she
would have gladly given them, as any of us would. You are
asking her, in effect, to rewrite her entire corpus.
Those who are asked for their documentation within these
subjects usually provide it. If they can't, they are always
more careful about what they say in the future. I will not
tolerate someone being railroaded because of a lack of
sources. Consider the context and the people in the
MORMON debate. Consider our mutual familiarity. If you
have a question about documentation, please, ask a question,
but don't try to silence anyone or railroad them to
another topic. That, I think, would be the worst possible
offence.
opening
proclus
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 2:52 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 8:56 AM
TO: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Michael, the more I read your note dated 3/11 10:02am., the
more falasy I discover. Quote "You claim that the belief of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is that
Jesus Christ pre-existed with Heavenly Father and Heavenly
Mother, yet you offer no resource to your claims and
findings, nor references to further reading". Actually,
Mike, this is a claim given by the LDS on this BB. I would>
never make a statement like this. I am a Christian and
Christians believe that "In the beginning was the Word and
the Word was with God and the Word was God. the same was in
the beginning with God. John 1:1&2. Holy Bible, King James
Version." I don't recall anywhere in the Holy Bible the
mention of Christ's Heavenly Mother. The LDS have been asked
where they got their opinion and as far as I can remember,
they never gave reference to this question. Also quote "You
quote temple workers as having authority to place garments
upon members of the church, yet you offer no written source
or further reading to pursue". When I posted that note>>>>
regarding the statement of the Temple Worker and the
initiate, I don't believe I made comment as to authority.
but it must be presumed (my opinion) that since the women of
the church do not hold the priesthood, then there is no
'authority' given to the woman to present the temple garment
to a woman initiate, unless of course some other authority
has been given to her. But you see, no one will respond to
these questions. Unless you care to answer. I would
appreciate it if you would not quote me out of context.
thank you
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 2:55 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 9:42 AM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: CYNTHIA AVONDALE (SJXK52A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
It is a joke when the claim is made of writing only on Dave
Hunt's Mormon discussion and none other!
Do as everyone is reading this discussion: Re-Set your
main menu to 02/13, and then type in KBHD86A (your ID!) for
the "from" ID and you will see your 26 pages of written
notes and replies for the last several weeks: all fiction
opinions with very little, if any, references!
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 2:55 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 9:42 AM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: STEWART GARLAND (PRVM96A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
"My" standard works? I am not a mormon!
But I will agree with other members on this non fiction
board that you need to reference your personal opinions.
Let's start with the questions Mr. Lancaster asked you in
the original note. You may have not authored the JST item,
but you neglected to answer the remaining quotations with
your non-fiction written sources! How about it? Where did
your receive your information from? Or is it ALL personal
opinion?
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 2:56 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 10:02 AM
TO: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Michael, many, many times on this BB, the discussion has
been opinion and personal experiences on both sides of the
question. Many times both LDS and Christian have referenced
particular statements in making a point. You certainly can
not expect each of us to reference everything we write. This
is like conversing. We are conversing here, verbally
communicating. It is difficult enough at times to express>>
oneself without hauling in rafts of endnotes to confuse
matters even more!! I don't believe this is your original
gripe. I feel that you want me to reference the material I
quoted regarding the endowment ceremony. Like I said,
hundreds of people have read the same material and I didn't
think if was such a big secret being that it has been
publish and sold internationally. Ya know, there is sacred
and there is secret and they are not the same. In my church
our communion service is sacred but it is not a secret. I am
sure most churches are like this but I don't have any
reference material on it--so you may throw out this >>>>>
statement. However the fact remains the same whether it is
referenced or not. Why don't you just relax and join the
discussion. I doubt if I will contribute much but I will
observe. One can only take so much head bangin' and I'm not
into Ozzy anymore. Thank you for the correction regarding
the JST. I appreciate that.
Stephenie
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 2:58 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 10:14 AM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
I found you offered personal opinions, without references
(98%), with references (2%), within the last 25 Notes (not
counting replies).
Please share with members the written resources, dates,
authors, ISBN, etc, that relates to this Non-Fiction BB.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 2:59 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 12:56 PM
TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
I SECOND THE MOTION!!
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 3:01 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 3:33 PM
TO: MICHAEL LOVE (BXXF11A)
FROM: MARK SPALDING (NCKD73A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Proclus:
I obviously misunderstood. The discussion seems to have
digressed from the immediate topic, however. What is the
title of the book (or books) in question? I have only read
very recent E-mail in this posting.
--Mark--
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 3:02 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 4:45 PM
TO: MICHAEL LANCASTER (NNGB32A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
To make this an even comparison I suggest you compare ALL of
us and see who comes out the winner. You are tampering with
our First Amandment Rights is this endeavor of yours. I am
sure you are aware of this. Your notes cease to be amusing!
I hope you don't want me to print up the Constitution to
prove my point! What IS your gripe? Is this just a 'stall'
to keep others from posting what the original subject line>>
will lead? Are you attempting to censor things BEFORE they
have a chance to be posted? I don't think you can stop some
of these people when they get started, and believe me, THEY
have only just begun.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 3:03 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 4:53 PM
TO: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
OOOOOPS, Mike. I made a mistake. When I re-read that quote
about the temple worker the beginning of the quote is
"having authority......". Sorry! BUT I didn't say they had
the authority. The author did. This mockery thing has me
puzzled. I didn't mock anyone. The only thing that could be
called a 'mock' was the statement I made regarding the 4600
commandments the LDS must live up to to be worthy. I didn't
know that was mockery. I think it's a shame to have to live
up to those standards.The King James Version of the Holy
Bibles states in Ecclesiastes 7:20 "For there is not a just
man upon the earth that doeth good and sinneth not". Also
our Lord said "None is good, save one, that is, God" Luke
18:19. That is why His death on the cross is so important to
the CHRISTIAN. We are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of
God and through His ressurection we are given life eternal
if we believe in Him as the true Son of God. And remember,
Mike, GOD is not to be mocked!!! Stephenie
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 3:04 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 4:53 PM
TO: STEWART GARLAND (PRVM96A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
No it certainly isn't all personal opinion. What's your
beef? What's your interest? What are YOU doing here? If you
say you have the 'freedom' to be anywhere you want, then
remember I have the same freedom. But I am here for a
purpose. What's yours?
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 03/15/92 3:05 PM
ARTS CLUB
TOPIC: BOOKS/NONFICTION
TIME: 03/14 5:42 PM
TO: CYNTHIA AVONDALE (SJXK52A)
FROM: STEPHENIE ORRIS (KBHD86A)
SUBJECT: MORMONS DAVE HUNT
Cynthia, I did as you suggested and my date started with the
Postings of 3/7 evenings. There are 28 pages of notes
including those posted this morning. Out of those 81 notes
approximately 23 were doctrinal notes and some of them were
replies to notes that had already been referenced. Each of
the notes I read contained reference either to Bible
scripture or to LDS materials ie: Doctrine and Covenants,>
Book of Mormon, Journal of Discources and other LDS
writings. One note was written to someone on another board
and I quoted someone from the Mormon bb to ask a question. I
made no statement of opinion in that note. Out of the notes
I found without references, those notes were mostly comments
to notes I had receieved (which had been referenced by
myself or the other preson), some were replies to friends on
the board, 2 were one word replies ie: 'welcome' and
??What??, and one was purely fictional opinion. I don't know
what the percentage of referenced material compared to the
others I pointed out would be, but I don't think your>>
survey is properly stated. What I surmise from your notes to
me is that your findings are not researched well enough to
the extent to attempt to discredit me or anyone else on this
board. If you would care to, we can both conduct a little
experiment and take the name and ID# of everyone who ever
posted on this board and go back as far as the date allows
and find ALL the reference materials mentioned and log them
by the person's name. Then perhaps we will have the full
view of what your conjectures are. Until then, I would
appreciate it if you would shelve this petty argument and we
can all move on to bigger things. In all sincerity, Steph
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